Since everything gives off some heat, and depending on the case size (even with great passive air flow) a fan or two would probably help, and yet they don't need to be Vantec Tornadoes. It'd be nice if that Mini-ITX board were customizable. Limiting USB ports is easy: there's only two ports on the back, the rest are via headers on the mobo, so only use what's needed. I mentioned that board since it already has DVI/YPbPr and Digital Audio outs on it. Others could work just as well I would suppose.
Hmmm Why don´t we get very retro, and bring a DEC alpha processor into the picture as a cpu ? Since that cpu was the first 1 ghz processor if I remember right, or at least it was overclocked to 1 ghz. But ok I am dreaming. But an X86 console platform sounds swell to me.
Thats what I asked when nintendo decided to keep the crappy modified 750CL on the Wii instead of using a G5 (since those are in full production, while I cant see any other products using G4s today apart from the Wii, and therefore the G5 shouldnt be more expensive than having custom G4s made by IBM). On the other hand, remember the benheck theorema: the weakest console always prevails:dance: Just j/k, BTW about using a GPU (like nVidia with Havok in SLI) is not that difficult since some more general algorithms can be implemented as well, but according to guys that did that kind of stuff it works better for high speed database sorting and searching, genetic algorithms and pattern recognition as in computer vision. Theres a version of Brook for GPU called BrookGPU for parallel procesing utilizing the multiple pipelines of execution present in the GPU. Some of the performance results obtained by using GPU as a CPU show that GPUs can be as fast as general purpose CPUs, or even outperform them by 5 times or more. On the other hand we may need to develop a SDK (with tools and everything) for the console, since most coders out there are used to work with normal CPUs, not GPUs. Anyway, if we are going for the X86, then why dont just use a PicoITX VT6047 board with a C7, add a screen, some controls and a battery and make it a portable? It would be smaller than a GG and like the Nomad it could be plugged to a Tv and some X360 controllers for "classic" console use. We could also release a non-portable version (cheaper, since it doesnt has the screen nor the Li-Ion battery).
The Gekko is not a G4. It's a variable of the G4's architecture, ie, a CUSTOM chip, with added commands. Nintendo essentially kept the GC's processor and shifted the speed upwards. They wanted binary compatibility accross the whole board. You can't just expect them to swap it with a G5 and expect everything to work as it should. Nintendo chose not to modify their hardware for whatever reason, as such they didn't "choose" something over the G5, they "kept" it.
Actually, nope, the Gekko IS a modified G3 actually, a PowerPC 750CXe to be more exactly, with 50 more instructions and a new FPU with some SIMD funtionality. The Wii Broadway is a modified 750CL to run at 729 MHz (speed not supported by the original version) the die is significantly smaller than the Gekko's (18.9 mm² vs 43 mm²) and it contains more instructions and/or higher SIMD support than the latter. Are you kidding right? as long as they dont use a really different G5 version and get one with the same (and more) instructions and FPU from the Gekko it should be binary compatible to its fullest. Do this: get a Mac program that was made during the G3s days and wasnt updated (therefore, it has no modifications made to run in a newer model) then try to run it in a G4 and a G5 Mac. Now come back and tell me if it didnt run at all...
You said it yourself. A "modified" version, ie a variant, not an exact off-the-shelf component now. It's a custom adaption made for the needs of nintendo. Actually the GC could be clocked much higher, from what the designers of the chip over at IBM stated in an interview. They kept it at 485Mhz to reduce the console's size and cooling needs. This means that not much additional R&D went on for the processor, since the chip was known to be able to reach higher clock-rates. http://uk.cube.ign.com/articles/100/100543p1.html
Nope, the 750CXe was a variant of the G3, the Gekko was a modification on that variant, therefore a modified 750CXe, not a standalone version of the G3. G3s werent "off the shelf" at all, in fact there was only one company that had upgrades for Macs but didnt had all the CPUs available. Anyway, for the kind of modification the Gekko was, saying it was a custom-made version for nintendo is like buying a Civic, put a crappy spoiler on the back and saying it is "one of a kind" custom version made for me. I call BS: the Gekko was a 750CXe and that one could be clocked at 700Mhz, but not at 729Mhz like the "broadway" modified 750CL, which BTW the original can clock as high as 1Ghz. With the Wii being so slim I doubt they could push it that far, seeing that the GC couldnt be clocked to the levels of the original 750CXe without overheating.
it's called new manufacturing process. this allows for higher speeds with less thermal dissipation. for reference, please read the whole interview. there was quite alot of RnD behind the GC's components, they didnt just "stick" a powerPC in there and called it a day.
Nope, sorry dude but the GC CPU is a pretty common one, not too far from the stock mobile celeron on the Xbox, but not near as custom as the EE, which was a R5900 with a MIPS III core and a special DSP and DMA. The only part of the GC thats really custom is the GPU flipper, designed by ArtX, the same guys that created the N64 graphics chips and the R300 after being bought by ATI in 2000 (thats why the GC has an ATI sticker instead of an ArtX one).
The AmigaOne computer use either a G3 or a G4 processor, so there ARE other machines than mac, and the Nintendo parts, that uses the G processor. But before we start throwing shit at eachother, then let us choose a CPU like in a poll or something, with different types of CPUs, since the shit throwing will end there, or one man will start a new political party, and the others will make an X86 based console. Sorry to mix politics into it. Since we are using either a DEC alpha processor as a CPU, an SH4 cpu, or an X86 based CPU, or a G type cpu. So the choice is down to G 3 or 4, X86, an SH4 cpu, or as a wildcard, the DEC Alpha processor.
Let's answer some questions: Was or Was the Gekko not made especially for Nintendo on contract by IBM? yes What does "especially for nintendo" include in this case? - they modified an existing processor in order to make it more games-oriented Does this make the Gekko a custom chip? -YES Could I find the Gekko anywhere else besides Nintendo products? -No, it's a custom solution built for nintendo, and nintendo alone, DESPITE the fact that it might be a modified version. Is a modified version the same thing as the version it originated from? -OF course not. Then it wouldn't be called a modified or custom version, would it? Does the extent of the modification matter in defining an object as modified? -An object is either modified or it is not. It does not matter for distingshion purposes whether it was lightly or heavily modified. Hence, comparing the Gekko to the Emotion Engine is a moot point. To summarize and conclude, Is the Gekko a custom chip? - in the light of the above, the Gekko is indeed a custom chip, be it based on an existing architecture. Similar examples include the NES and SNES CPUs, as well as the R4300i found inside the n64. They are all MODIFIED, ie CUSTOM versions of standard chips. anyway, back to the topic!
i'm quoting myself because nobody seemed to see the price and quality point out of this... it's 1/3rd of the solutions at mini-itx.com....
Of course karsten, price is everything . Ideally, a custom board would be best, without the PCI, AGP, RAM slots, mouse, keyboard and firewire, but if a solution such as that is all we can get, c'est la vie. If I remember correctly, the rights to the Gecko are owned by Nintendo, just like how MS own the rights to the Xenon CPU. BTW, congrats on your 1000
Man you sound like that guy concura trying to defend the abysmal mistakes of the PS3, just that in your case you sound more like a nintendo PR employee. Really, the only kinda custom chip nintendo ever got was the Sony SPC700 sound chip in the Snes. The Nes CPU was a standart Ricoh 6502 with a restricted DMA controller, and the N64 had a Nec VR4300, which was actually a crippled version of the R4300i (not the other way around as you say). It that case it would be better to use the "off the shelf" R4300i, but it was too expensive. First, anyone can get a modified chip. A CUSTOM one means that the design is unique, and therefore has no modification nor it is a modification of another chip. Second, by saying that theres no difference between a heavy modification and a slightly modificated chip you're contradicting what you just said just a couple post before. The only console chip today that is closer to the definition of "custom" is the X360 G5, since this 3-core chip is almost a one of a kind, and while IBM wanted to sell it to Apple it was impossible since the chip was a custom-job paid by MS, and therefore they own the design and all legal rights that involve manufacturing, distribution and use of the chip in all kind of products.
Well, calling me this and that won't make me wrong on my points, but it will make me more determined in answering more throughoutly from now on Also, you call me a nintendo PR person, despite the fact that my knowledge and breadth of electronics is far beyond just nintendo. If i remember correctly, i made some posts about the SH4 and its technology as well. I guess I m a SEGA PR person too then? the n64's CPU is called the MIPS 4300i. It's a criipled version of the 4K series, not the 4300i, get your facts right. I got mine from the MIPS website A modified chip is a custom chip by definition if it is built upon the CUSTOM requirments of a contract, in this case, a gaming company's desire to push the gaming capabilities of its console beyond the general purpose nature of the existing processor. which part of myself am I contracting? please quote. Finally, get your definitions right. Custom means something that is not general purpose, ie, built for a specific purpose. In this case, the CUSTOM component is a MODIFIED version of an existing product. What's so hard to grasp?
You know is kinda funny you tell me about getting my definitions right when you didnt know the Broadway wasnt an overcloked Gekko but a modification of yet another chip (and not a modification of the same chip the gekko was based). WTF? Talk about confussing, and what the hell are you contracting? Before going into the whole MIPS thing, read more about Silicon Intellectual Property. Custom is one of a kind, while a modification is, hence the name, a change in an already existing thing. The VR4300 was a chip made by Nec for the N64 using a SIP agreement with MIPS. The contradiction: You said earlier than the N64 CPU and GC CPUs were not "off the shelf" parts but "custom-made parts ONLY for nintendo" but at the same time you insist that the N64 didnt use the Nec VR4300 (a modified and specially made for nintendo) chip but the "off the shelf" R4300i. Get it?
Children! Stay on topic! Plus, you both have your points. If you want to bicker, do it over PM. There is some ambiguity here, but let's leave it at that. Here's a summary of what we've thought up so far: VIA x86 chip on (preferably custom\modified) mini-ITX board Custom DOS or Linux based OS Networking support (at least Ethernet, no ideas on wifi yet) USB for add ons, controllers IDE port for optional hard drive Use of onboard VIA graphics (even providing some 3D possibly, but that's not a main focus) Onboard sound But of course, all of this could change, no?
Firstly, not knowing a great deal about the development subtleties of the Broadway has nothing to do with definitions. A definition is a manner in which to describe a class of objects. To define is to set limits and recognize attributes. The definition of a Custom chip can include ANYTHING that has been made or modified for the CUSTOM NEEDS of another party. Since you brought it up however, please provide the links that show Broadway's evolution and which chip it was based on. I m very curious about this, and I would like to learn more. Secondly, yes, they are not "off-the-shelf" in their current form. Do you understand this? This effectively means that you won't find a Gekko or a 4300i in any store or through any provider. Yes or no? They are modified versions, which makes them SPECIAL and only found in the consoles I referred to earler. What's so hard to understand? They are not "off-the-shelf" just because they were based on industry-standard components. You make me repeat myself: They are custom versions of existing components. They are custom in so far that they are modified not by general demand and for a broad market, but on the demand of a company, formulated through a contract. For example, when you ask someone to modify your Honda RSX or whatever you d like to drive, he makes a custom modification based on your wishes - he doesnt do whatever he sees fit, he follows a certain shopping-list of things to do , making it a custom modification. There's no two ways about it. To use your own words, Custom can be a "one-of-a-kind" modification. for a definition of custom-made, refer to my above highlighted phrase. Is my english really that bad that you don't understand what I m saying? Anyway, I m putting an end to this discussion because it's not fair to others to have the thread hi-jacked for these things. I d advise you do the same.
I just found this site with these products. I smell potential: http://www.gctglobal.com/Products/Set_Top_Box/STB6086N2/stb6086n2.html http://www.gctglobal.com/Products/Set_Top_Box/K35/k35.html That's almost what we have planned, but pre built! No idea on prices yet, but if they can hook us up, we might be on a roll!
