Moving to Japan in March for a Job

And that's why I don't bother learning all the over the top politeness honorific crap :nod: We can get away with not having to use it.

 

At least there is this one advantage for gaijins.

 

hahaha

 

No offense but that sounds exactly like the attitude/excuse that's disliked about foreigners in most countries including the US, Germany, France...

 

Unless you have lived in Japan for as many years as I have (12) then you can't understand how utterly over the top and unnecessary some of the politeness shit really is. It's nothing at all like the politeness levels in English, German or Frence. I have worked in a Japanese company for 8 years now and never had any issues by not using it. Even to the company president I've never had any issues. I am polite and respectful as one should be but I have no problems not learning the over the top stuff. In fact, a lot of Japanese say polite words with no meaning what so ever. It's just a word to them. They have no feeling behind it which enforces my opinion not to bother with it. I mean, what's the point in being overly polite when you don't mean a thing of it?

Yakumo

 

That's still not an excuse for not using it. Ordering a pizza is a completely ludicrous dialogue, but it doesn't work if you simply talk to the person.

 

Why shouldn't it work? Language is a communication tool, you express your desire to buy a pizza, the teenage cashier understands that you want a pizza, you get your pizza (maybe with some spit on it, but still). End of story.
Maybe you could get a pizza that's not been spat on and a smile if you would have been more polite, but it still worked. Technically you don't even need correct grammar and syntax to order food. Some gestures and the occasional vocable are enough to get you through a whole country. As long as we understand each other, language has done its job. Of course I wish to live in a world where people are more polite to each other, and it is undeniably a form of respect to learn the language of the country you live in, but if you see a person who is struggling to express a thought it would be unpolite to just ignore her if you got the message. Even if the grammar and syntax are wrong.

 

I don't understand. There's no special language for ordering a Pizza over the phone or at the store for pick-up.

For those who don't know, Japan has about 3 levels of politeness above English. It's these 3 or at least the ultimate highest i really can't be arsed with.

Let's see, we have Rude, normal, polite and extra polite. that's enough IMO. Not that you should be using rude in the first place.

 

B/c this is Japan. Rule #1: Never ask why, lest you want to be disappointed.

I could Caveman my way through life here but I choose not to. Indeed, I've even heard the pizza operators speaking really shit English to non-Japanese speakers when I've gone to pick up. But we're talking about proper communication here... not bare minimum. I am, anyway.

There is a set dialog for any business transaction on the phone... at least for the start and the end. Ordering a pizza is a perfect encapsulation of that. I was a VIP at my local Dominos when I didn't give a shit about my health. It's the same routine always. At my regular poker game I saw two high level speakers deviate, and it's a train wreck every time. Sure, they gto the pizza, but fuck me if everyone's ears didn't hurt and the call take twice as long. One of the other guys there was like, "why are you not following the dialog?"

 

Hmm, I know there's a dialogue to ordering in Japan, there is for everything, something I fucking hate about the language. It's as if they can't think for themselves. Anyway, yeah you do start off the conversation the same way most of the time but you can change it or at least we do down here. Never had an issues with a phone order or drive through order yet. But I think we're drifting away from my main gripe with Japanese and that was the over the top levels of politeness. This is just my opinion though so.......

 

Probably beyond the scope of this thread, but you can argue that the set phrases in a phone conversation (or many other settings) is indeed about the lack of free thinking. That's hardly a new argument though... it has outdated either of us to put it mildly. And, the result is always the same. Japan is not going to change (despite the fact that it's fucking itself in the ass on my levels by not doing so).

I understand your main gripe, it's fucking nuts. BUT, at least from my own experience, my own grind has become easier once I've been able to hang on that level.

 

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. Things may be slightly different in the big city than down here as well I guess.

 

Dude, send me back some candy! It'd be awesome of you.

 

I see all your points - you can just let them waffle on in their script and you respond with your own script.
You can deviate from the normal but it is going to cause some initial awkwardness as a lot are momentarily stunned by a request that's not of the norm.

Back on topic, depending where you live (Tokyo) you can get lots of free stuff. Sayonara Sales on craigslist - check them out.

For a bed I would buy your own mattress - buy in Ikea or Nitori

 

Could someone please be polite enough to provide us with an english example of this pizza dialogue?

Because in america it's pretty much "I'd like to place an order - OK - Can I have a large pepperoni and a 2 liter of Coke - anything else? - That's all - Alright you're total is $18.87, should be there in about 30-40 minutes. - Thanks bye"

Anything above that would kind of blow my mind.

 

It's pretty much the same to be honest but depending upon where you go you'll be asked a few extra questions such as crust type or something.

 

Find a dialogue on how to make/take a phone call in Japanese. It follows this structure almost to a T. There is no chit-chat. There is no talking about the weather. There is no how are you, and there basically no deviation. The other side will always open up with the company name, branch name, and the person speaking. You're supposed to say your name. [Other than a pizza order they will come back with お世話になっております。You'll state your business, and so on and so forth.

The end part is pretty much the same as well. When you order a pizza, they will confirm the order and all that jazz. The kicker is that they will always speak Keigo which takes like twice as long regular talk.

As with any other phone call, or business transction (see convenient store purchase) you will feel that they are just ringing off lines with little to no thought invested. That is b/c they are just ringing off lines with little to no thought invested in them. Go to a conbini that has a long line -- really listen to what's going on. It's like someone programmed a drum machine with samples. Rinsed and repeated for each customer.

Anyway, the real tick to doing business in Japan whether it be on the phone or in person, is to pick up on the queues of when you're supposed to talk. The trailing "ga..." is a hard one in the beginning, especially on the phone.

 

Great advice from GP, nothing more to add really, other than the trailing "ga..." or "kedo..." will take a bit of getting used to. Best way is to learn the uses and try it out yourself. I can get people to do all sorts of things here in Japan now without actually directly asking for it.

 

What I've had pushed into my brain from others is that. You hardly get snobbed off in Japan, and many people are polite, you won't get shoved around in lines, you get pushed in the store etc. Is this true? If so, Japan seems to be the ideal country to live in.

 

I had an awesome time when I visited.

So many little things add up to a greater whole.

However some things I never saw 1) A man holding a door open for woman so that she may enter first. I did this once and got an elaborate thank you from a teen after picking her jaw back up from the floor

2) Anyone on the transit getting up and giving a seat to the elderly, female etc..

I only had two people speak english to me everything else was japanese of which I had the speaking level of a 5 year old.

Still had a great time