So border control (ie actually the sole purpose of a border) is populist bs? Hm, I wonder why any country would bother with even having them right? Come on, man. The issue isn't stricter border control, the issue is that up until, litterally, a few days ago there wasn't any border control at all. Now there are some internal EU checks. You can still atm simply take a boat from turkey to greece, say you've lost your documents and that you're looking for refuge and they'll print out an ordinary piece of copier paper with your alleged name and age on it and it's valid for 30 days as an EU id. Forget background checks or checks for criminal records, they don't even take your fingerprints.
Well, refugee crisis and terrorist attacks came from the single source - "arabian spring", when West poked hard that hornets nest which Middle East is by supporting and training various anti-government factions which mutate into ISIS. But by itself refugee crisis has nothing to do with terrorist attacks. Refugee problem can cause unrest, even riots with civilian casualties, but it's not the same as terrorism. Even if that problem will be solved terrorist organizations can easily send sleeper agents with perfectly clear papers, no criminal records, no bombs or weapons in the bag. They can live normal life for years and then one innocent-looking email (that's why all those mass surveillance systems are nothing but useless waste of money and violation of civil rights) and they starting to act. It happened before and not just once. It's not that border control is useless, it's just not a panacea. There can be only one solution - to liquidate all current terrorist organizations, which is very hard task that will take a lot of time,and never ever start any such "revolution" in those countries. EVER. Of course in terms of political games world didn't change much since times of Roman Empire but not only people - weapons and technologies did. It's so easy to create monster that will devour the creator. Empires always did and will do attempt to change governments to strenghten their influence but some prefer to use splitting maul where it can be done with scalpel.
QUOTE="americandad, post: 843533, member: 63679"]So border control (ie actually the sole purpose of a border) is populist bs? Hm, I wonder why any country would bother with even having them right? Come on, man.[/quote] Border control itself is not BS, but border control to help prevent terrorist attacks from happening in particular is not going to work. Hence, flipping yesterday's events into an argument for stronger persecution of refugees is not going to fight the cause. Not saying it's good right now, not at all, but one thing cannot be used to argue for another here, that's all I meant to say.
How do you argue this? There has been confirmed cases of isis terrorists entering EU hiding among the economical migrants (they stop being refugees once they leave the first safe country). This was possible due to lack of border checks. Hence a terrorist threat can be directly linked to it. Only you are talking about persecuting the immigrants, I'm not.
Thank you for your support, guys... My girlfriend and future wife was in the Bataclan only two weeks ago so she's really shocked. But we're fine. Some members of my family were in the Stade de France but they're OK too. Just 3-4h to wait before they could go home. Sad days.
Yeah, that's not border control. That is an extension of already enforced control. How many terrorist attacks have you had in your union of states since world trade center? An example of a country with completely open borders is Somalia. Hurray for open borders! The open borders policy of the EU concerns only internal movement. External borders are still supposed to be controlled according to law. Good to hear everything is alright. Must be chaotic and frightening. I'm curious about the ouvre port thing. Is it true that literally everyone was offering a free stay for anyone in need?
Yes it was true. And some alternative hashtags were "DoorOpen" and "TürOffen" (German version) for every non-french speaking people. A lot of tourists are everyday in Paris, and many of them were German during the strike (they came for the soccer match).
Glad you're fine SiZ! J'espère que toute ta famille et tes amis sont saints et saufs. J'ai peur des répercussions à long terme de ces attentats par contre. La haine entraine la haine, et on est pris dans ce cercle depuis des décennies, la seule vrai différence est que la communication et le transport n'ont jamais été ausi simple et rapide de toute l'histoire.
Thank you FG. Yeah, the strike back has already started. I hear that the FR Army launched a massive attack on Raqqa, Syria. So I'm afraid to see another thing like this. Russian aircraft, Beirut and now us. Seems to like only the beginning of the story... (I'm responding in English, better to talk into that language when public, no offense huh!).
Hi guys, I just hope that the good muslim here in France will not be put appart. If us French do so, Isis will have more and more "warrior" (a true warrior is someone who fight again armed people, not again unarmed ones). We are stronger together. I have heard that Russian have sent more warships and planes in Syria. Better kick those Isis bastard now before they get more and more guns and missils. Now that they are big, the send terror outside of Syria and Irak, as alcaida did. If we touch them now, they will have to protect their main operation area and will focus on fighting close to these areas.
Yes because for the last 5 years dropping bombs over there has worked in our favour so far. Getting rid of ISIS would just cause more splinter groups which will only act much worse than those who came before.
As far as we all know, they have started dropping bombs only recently. Our government haven't done anything to stop Isis since we had the January attacks. I am a "Stop war" militant so trust me, I really don't like violence. I just don't know what we can do know. I know that working against the radicalisation of some people is a good thing. But French government didn't do anything for that since more than 15 years. A loy of people are still sad because of what happen in Paris (in Beyrouth and Egypt too) so no need to post a such comment. So please stop doing such sarcasm. If you have another option, I will be glad to talk about that.
I'm sorry to say but France is part of the small minority that have been carrying out sustained bombings in syria. But yeah, there's not much you can do, all you can do is to contain but because all the EU rights laws its really hard to do that. Actively trying to get rid of ISIS as a whole just adds to their cause and benefits no one but them.
As you said, bombing is not enought. I hope that we will find a solution soon to this problem, as there is already too much dead people. I my opinion, if some rich muslim countries (like saoudi Arabia) helps us, we can manage to find a solution. Anyway, my father, mother, my three sisters, one of my brothers and many of my friends are in Paris. So for the moment, it may sounds stupid but I feel really worried for them. We should continue to live as usual, but it is more easy to say it than to do it.
My condolences to paris. Such a tragedy, such evil. I wonder how this will affect the refugees in Germany, last I talked to my cousins in Germany a few weeks ago, they along with many other Germans had been volunteering and helping the refugees learn german and avoid certain foods such as certain chocolate which contain alcohol. Hopefully stigma doesn't arise.
