PayPal has "permanently limited" my account

Marshallh suggested I look into Stripe earlier. Might be worth setting up a basic store front for myself just to have it available.

And I got Google Wallet to send me a debit card.

 

Does Stripe allow people to pay via their debit/credit card directly into your bank account or is there another method that can?

I'm in the process of making the first of a few N64 portables for sale with a different design than previously, i've had about a dozen potential interested people message me on my site wanting to buy from me potentially, so should sell a few in coming months. In the past i've used PayPal for the transaction however as you say, they are less friendly to let you sell legitimate items then used to be; could just ask people to pay into one of my minor bank accounts directly however would be nicer and cleaner to have a direct way on the site itself and it goes into my bank account automatically. Hence my interest in learning more about options and especially if there is a Wordpress plugin for the chosen method.

 

I definitely agree with this. It sounds rude, but continually going over people's heads is always an option.

 

Got a call from them about my BBB complaint.

The short version:
They have other transactions they're using to justify this but didn't quote me transaction numbers and said that the only reason they're disclosing these is due to the complaint. They do say things like modchip. They claimed a Rhea I sold infringes on the copyright and trademark SEGA has. Upon some back and forth I discover PayPal thinks you can copyright the shape of a headlight (no, you can't copyright a shape. You can patent a design, however) and they have no idea what a copyright or trademark actually is nor do they seem to know how you actually infringe on either. Portraying a replacement component as an OEM replacement component (or addon board) as an original SEGA made part would be infringement upon the trademark. ACDelco would be out of business if this wasn't so.

They said there was no way to appeal this and the decision was final. Sueing them is a possibility still. I will be filing further complaints about the unmentioned transactions and a separate one for their inability to understand well established business law concepts.

 

Also you're liable for what your buyer puts in the transaction description. I got boned because someone(s) wrote something stupid. Thanks guys.

 

Update: Spoke to someone at PayPal as per a BBB complaint. Some highlights:

So anything not authorized is not something you can use Paypal for as well as anything that alters a console is a trademark and intellectual property violation. Like overclock mods, S-Video mods, or wiring up larger batteries to replace CR2032s. That FRAM mod for Pokemon Red? Totally illegal.

Make sure you refund anything not noted properly or else you're a bad person!

Newsflash: apparently SEGA has sole control over every aspect of their console. Do not install: LEDs, ground effects, or new power supplies.

There you have it folks. Not only does PayPal have an extremely liberal concept of what trademarks and copyrights are but they feel virtually everything we do here, no matter how big or small it may be a change, is against their policy. Want to install a NESRGB? Against policy. Want to overclock a console? Against policy. Everything is against policy unless you're buying and selling unmodified anythings.

 

That shouldn't be news to you. Technically, Sega has the right to stop you selling a product or service that modifies their copyrighted design. All software has a licence agreement with that clause about not reverse engineering, modifying etc. I'm sure at least some console manufacturers printed likewise in their user manuals. (The European Saturn manual is vague, but does say "do not disassemble or alter the Sega Saturn and its peripherals in any way.")

I'm not saying it doesn't suck, I'm not saying it's not rather anal that they'd chase you for modifications of older (obsolete) products, but I don't know that you'd get far with a lawsuit as they are technically within their rights.

 

That really depends on the jurisdiction.

 

Perhaps when buying or selling on here, we should be using codenames or something. For example, User's Initials + a Code. For APE, it'd be A001. Family Guy would be FG123. For me, AZ852. I dunno, just spit balling. *shrug*

 

From what I understand, if a payment is by gift PP shouldn't technically give a toss since there's no protection (therefore they stay out of it).
If you send a message to them and say "I was scammed xyz mount of cash through gift" they'd just roll their eyes at you.

Usually the best thing to do is to not leave a note at all.

 

They can request it all they want but it is not a copyright or trademark violation anymore than doing so to a car would be. That's a big part of the problem is that car mods and parts=OK and electronics=not ok. In the US you can request anything you want but we have struck down "shrink wrap EULA"s like that one before. Shrink wrap EULA meaning you have to open the product to find out what you just agreed to in order to use the product. They won't stand a court challenge so if the manual says to do nothing we don't have to obey it. PayPal's arguement is based upon certain things being illegal when they aren't.

PayPal also specifically told me on the phone that "hackers" made this ergo it's bad clearly not understanding the correct terminology or what a hacker is or does.

 

If you have an android phone you should tape your phone conversations with them.
With, for example, this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nll.acr

 

Be careful though, in some jurisdiction you may require the expressed consent of the other party in order to legally record a conversation.

 

Not only that, but are PayPal aware that the Saturn isn't even officially supported?
Like you mentioned before, an AV mod on a famicom, or overclocking a console doesn't endorse piracy. (which I believe PayPal just whiteknight about)

 

If Sony / Nintendo can (and did) pursue modders / modchip sellers for unauthorized tampering of their hardware and software (after all, the chip alters the software running within the device), then there's a good argument for them. Plus, as I mentioned to someone on here very recently, their TOS specifically says (or used to say) don't sell modchips. Regardless of whether it's legally right or not, if they told you not to sell yellow bikinis in their TOS and you sold yellow bikinis, they can take whatever action their TOS dictates.

Interestingly, it was much more specific previously (I forget if that's pre-eBay merger or what quite) - if you can find the post I made in the past month or so, I gave some links to historical details. Perhaps they might be of use to you? Stating that PayPal specifically removed that clause from their TOS / FAQ.

Funny how they've actually used the correct definition of a hacker... then attributed it to the stereotype!

 

x

 

In Sweden, where I live, you don't need nobody's consent. In the US you need the consent of at least one party, with you yourself being one such party.

 

No, you need both parties here in the US. You can file a lawsuit against someone if they recorded you without your permission.

 

This. Regardless of legality (especially seeing as PayPal aren't turning you in for breaking the law), PayPal have acted on what they believe is a user violating their TOS. If they put no sex toys to be sold using PayPal as a payment method in their TOS and you sold 10" black ribbed knobblers, the argument that it's a legal product with CE marks etc. won't hold any weight. Which takes us onto....

Technically speaking, if you're selling multiples of an item at any time (rather than just selling off a bunch of stuff taking up space) i.e. holding the item in stock, you are a trader. Depending on your country, you should probably register as a business (some sites like eBay and Etsy would make you do so) and you should have a business PayPal account. Naturally, this may not be worthwhile for small-time orders.. but there's the possibility it should be done. I've not read PayPal's terms sufficiently on when you MUST have a business account, as they mostly deem it a choice from what I've seen.

Incidentally, here is my post relating to modchips and PayPal. You'll see I quoted their 12-year-old policy, curiously no longer present on the site:

 

We're both right.

Federal law requires that at least one party taking part in the call must be notified of the recording (18 U.S.C. §2511(2)(d)). For example, it would be illegal to record, without notification, the phone calls of people who come into a place of business and ask to use the telephone.
However
Several states require that all parties consent when one party wants to record a telephone conversation.
For a list of states that require all parties to consent, read this.