Police killed a PS3 thief!!

Well Azraelscross, how do you know that he did? You weren't there either

getting in trouble with the police is one thing. getting murdered is another.

A punishment must be proportionate to the crime and the aim the State is trying to achieve. Else, you d get shot for a parking ticket, as much as for stealing a PS3 or even if were a serial killer. If you shoot the common thief, what is left for mass murderers,Kissinger, Sadam, and George Bush??:lol:

 

ahh. true.;p i'm just looking at the evidence. the way i interpet it that it most likely was justified. could i be wrong? very possible.

 

well the dead guy can't speak much of evidence since he's dead, and the only side with *any* evidence is the police..kinda biased if you ask me.

 

Whoops forgot the link was posted at the begining of the topic. Anyway, I honestly feel the details are far too sparse to judge myself.

I am a pacifict myself, but I know better then to ever be hostile or try and act big with the cops.

I mean this is almost nothing compared to a homeless man in my area that got shot despite his only weapon being a stick. In that situation the cops could have pulled out a tazzer, but intead they shot him taking his life.

Now as for this guy, Well if he was striking someone for their ps3, then he got what was coming to him. Stealing from people like that is wrong.

Barc0de on the ohter hand makes a point, there are criminals way worse then this guy who don't even get as brutual of a treatment. I honestly can't fully judge the matter unless I had details of the conversation that took place and the suspects behavior towards police.

 

Reports stated police give him ample warning to stop running. Else they would shoot. He was running thro the tube after being warned.
There was a huge threat that he could of been another bomber and thus was treated as such. Yes it was sad he was killed but the front line officers were not to blame. That point at that time he was a threat. Thus dealt accordingly.

Answer me this What if he was a bomber and they didn't shoot? Scores more would of been killed, Would you complain that they didn't do enough?

He was an illgal immigrant thus should not of been in the uk.(But thats another matter)

 

Wasn't the brazilian guy on vacation in the UK?

I d take police official reports with a grain of salt. Did you expect them to be honest if they indeed had fucked-up?

 

I beleve it was something like 6 months he overstayed not exactly sure.

Theres 2 sides to every case, in this one I'm backing the police rather then some unoffical crap.
Officers have to make a split second decision I beleve they were right to shoot, why? coz it could of been me or you on that tube. Id rather not get blown up thanks.

 

Thats the question everyone who takes the moral high ground must answer.

 

The police in the US, are trained to shoot people in the chest (theorectically the easiest place to land a hit). This ofcourse, is retarded. Shooting someone in the chest is going to oh what was it... oh yes, KILL THEM. That means the police go around killing people over the stupidest things. "oh I felt threatened". It's ridicuslus. Police will fire a huge amount of rounds at something all because they got scared. Doesn't matter if it's a bus full of school children.

But there is the other side to this, in cases where they are dealing with a clearly dangerous person. But honestly, who believes a person that answers the door while playing their playstation is dangerous to more than one police officer that is armed with a weapon? Obviously we don't know what took place and we never will. But certainly don't take the side of the police or the "victim".

In some of these cases the police acted to the best of anyone's ability. However in others, the police officer should be charged with murder and put to death. Being a police officer is not a license to wrecklessly kill people.

 

You know there's a difference between diliberate police brutality and accidental shootings. Here in LA a last week a guy got shot comming out of a strip bar, turns out it was his bachelor party and he was due to get married the next morining. But there just happened to be an undercover drugs and prostitution sting going on at this nudie bar, and this guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (at least that's what it looks like so far.)

Interesting post script to this - this morning he was buried at the church he was supposed to get married at. Clearly somebody screwed up bad.

On the other hand also in Los Angeles theres that video (which is on Youtube) of a guy getting the shit beat out of him by the cops, who are kneeling on his head and punching him in the face, while he screams "I can't breathe." One instance is what looks like an accident, the other clearly over the line.

Here we don't know what happened, the guy probably opened the door, saw the cops, and either booked it or came out swinging with his dog, whereupon they shot him for some reason. We don't know if it was justified, there will be an investigation (especially now in light of these other profile cases.)

Accidents happen, people get killed. What can you do? Train the cops a little better. The smart thing like Yakumo said is to always cooperate, no matter what, but even then accidents happen. Maybe the cop can't hear you, maybe he thinks you have a weapon in your hand when you're holding your wallet, etc. Just move slowly, keep your hands in view at all times, never look like you're pointing something at them, etc.

Thing is I've seen this kind of shit first hand, people getting the stuffing beat out of them by the cops, harrassed at thier jobs and crap becasue they know someone who knows someone who is in trouble, etc. I don't trust them personally. But I realize what they do is necessary.

 

Did you pay attention to anything that happened other than on the afternoon it happened? All the stuff about giving warnings, him running, wearing a heavy coat, etc.. were all bullshit. He was walking calmly to work wearing a denim jacket. Police officers had already let him ride a bus to the tube station, waited until he was sitting down on the train and then put seven bullets into the back of his head. It was completely unjustifiable by any stretch of the imagination. The only reason for his death was living in the same housing block as someone police had under surveillance and looked a bit foreign.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/tube_shooting/html/default.stm

So, no, I don't think that police as incompetent as that should be allowed to shoot suspicious people. I can guarantee that if it was one of your mates, you wouldn't have the same opinion.

 

Whatever. The PS3 thief deserved it. His 65pound german shepherd posed a threat to the cop who was merely protecting his master. They shot the dog, guy lunged at the officer, the officer (in fear for his life at that moment) shot the guy. Shit happens. Sad for the family, yes. But hey, the family should've raised the kid better in the first place. Let the experts figure out a way so that not only does it give the family of the thief a bit of closure to shut up, but also have it where the cop did not look like he went in there shooting up the place.

Its a crazy world out there.

 

That is one of the main problems with the way these warrants are served though. They happen so fast the person the police are attempting to apprehend has no time but to react in a defensive manner. What would you do if you heard a loud banging at your door.... Then BOOM your door is kicked in. What would your first thought be in the split second all this is happening? Defend yourself or just let whatever is going on to happen?

Actually Hawanja the bachelor was shot in New York (unless some other poor bachelor was shot) and not in LA. Police fired over 50 rounds into the car the men were in. Thirty-one rounds were fired by one cop. That is another big problem nowadays. Police have no sense of fire control in these situations. They just spray and pray.

 

Every person reacts differently in such situations. Not every person will react in a defensive manner. So you're saying that police should server arrest-warrants in a more civil/slow manner? Imagine that being done in a drug-house raid. That will give plenty of time for the drug dealers to get their guns ready for the ambush thus endangering the police officer's lives.

*and i just noticed that instead of dog it should say cop in my other post that i was quoted on..

 

I'm not say that police should never use knock down warrants. I believe there are times when such tactics are necessary. I also believe though that the standards police use to justify this kind of force has been lowering in recent years and in many cases could be done in a more civil and less dangerous manner. Both to the police and the people they are trying to arrest as well as any innocent bystanders that could be caught in the crossfire.

 

Really? If he was a mate yes i would be gutted hes dead but then Id also think hes a prick for running away from ARMED Police. Like a mate who died in a police chase, he has a role in his death and he could of stopped it.
You say the police are incompetent, have you ever met them? ARU's are the most highly trained people I have ever seen.

If you were on a tube there is surppected bomber near you there is an armed cop ready to shoot, would you want him to shoot or do u want him to risk your life too.
At that point in that time the police thought he was a bomber. That copper had to shoot him, anyone who says otherwise is deluded. Its one death or multipllude of deaths

 

Gleavepaul, you seem to be taking the police's official statement, as a statement of fact. Since YOU were not present, despite your knowledge of what the ARU's training is, you cannot , with absolute certainty say that what they did is right.

It hinges on the facts, and no one besides the dead guy and the man who shot him knows the facts, so stop assuming you do.

Are you also naive, in believing that if the Police did fuck up, they would openly admit to it? Bad publicity is the last thing they would want.

Don't take assumptions as facts, that's the sort of thing that can get one in trouble. As a lawyer (after xmas!) I know many cases where people who assumed a great deal of things and in the end their actions were not justified based on their assumptions.

 

For the second time, he never ran. Read the BBC link. It was the police officer chasing him who was running. He never gave any reason for the police to suspect him.

If the police are so competent, why is an innocent man dead? Maybe the officer who pulled the trigger was given false information. Maybe he got trigger happy. Either way, it doesn't change the fact an innocent man is dead and the police are entirely responsible.

I'm not saying that the police should never shoot a suspected bomber, but if their intelligence and procedures are so flawed that someone completely unrelated can wind up dead and no-one seems to taking any responsibility, then they shouldn't be allowed, simple as that. This isn't Judge Dredd. We have a legal system for a reason.

 

I thank Phinn who indirectly supports the lawyer's proffession If Judge Dredd was to come around, we d lose our jobs O_O

 

What police need is a similar version of the military's Rules of Engagement (which can be summed up as this):

- Shout
- Show (weapon)
- Shove (warning shot)
- Shoot ("take down" shot)

Torso/chest shots are "sucker" shots since the torso is the biggest presentable target (most of the time, anyways) of the human body.
When a person is running, the torso is the easiest target to aim for. Cops really need to train to shoot non-fatal areas for (semi-)stationary targets, such as arms/shoulders, thigh, and non-lethal points on the torso. Also, more accountability in regards to their actions is needed.