PS SCPH-1001/2 audio output opinions please.

The laser mechanism and transport mechanism for the Playstation 1 must be what, 10 years old? It wasn't particularly rock solid technology and the mere fact that the price point of the Sony PS was roughly £200 new suggests to me that Sony just used cheap audio components as it was designed as a gaming console not a CD player. Did the audio guys just go over the top? Even so just how much audio technology can such a cheap console provide? This is the surprise with this entire thing. The older PS1 units should have better, more expensive chip sets and technology. As we all know the revisions are generally cost cutting exercises and tend to throw the baby out with the bath water.

My Japanese 1000 had S-Video output, but that went pretty quickly. Other revisions changed the configuration until the board was roughly 1/2 the size.

Most people on here will have more expertise relating to this than me, I know that graphics handling of the PS series improved for instance as a direct result of revisions. My Japanese 1000 for instance looks rather blocky.

It must be the handling of the DAC that is ensuring the higher level of accuracy, but I can't see why? This is old, 1-bit DAC technology. I also don't see why the later series are considered just as viable because A) they used a different DAC and B) they had no RCA output. I'm genuinely intrigued by these claims and would love to know more.

I like the idea of an external DAC. The transport / DAC separate systems represent the best of both worlds in theory. Firstly you are not buying everything bundled into the one unit, that tends to mean you get higher spec components. You are also feeding the units from 2 separate PSU and that smooths things a great deal. You also get the chance to up-grade. I.e. you might have a fantastic 1 series transport mechanism (lets face it, the simpler the better) and the DAC may be revised. Why should you forgo the transport for a new DAC?

Anyway, as the PS is meant to sound better than a $6,000 CD player you'd need to be using a pretty bloody good DAC to allegedly make any difference, plus you'd need to either fit a BNC connection to the back of the PS or use it via RCA. You'd just be using the PS in that result as a transport mech and I refuse to believe that the humble PS is the best mech on the market! Roksan for instance sold transport mechs worth more than my entire dev kit collection put together.

There is clearly something about the DAC configuration and analog treatment of the PS that is getting these guys so excited.

As for the RCA's being so good. It's three fold. Separation, shielding and the opportunity to use high end cables. Less EMC issues and the jitter is down to the DAC **

** Just the way the samples are handled because the basic technology was poorly implimented. Imagine the samples doubling up and returning. Other technology was later employed to smooth those latencies and "jitters" (sounding like clicks) out.

 

In reading, I am correct in suggesting the beauty is in the DAC, not the mech. Every article that mentions this aspect agrees that the mech is crap. So an external DAC would over ride the PS and you'd lose the alleged advantage. Leaving you with a lowsy mech and an expensive DAC. Isn't it a shame nobody has yet harnessed the DAC and considered implimenting a new mech. Hellishly awkward, but not impossible.

Oh the irony, a CD player you can play PS1 games on :dance:

 

Excuse me, but as the whole thing's digital how can a "mech" make a difference before the DAC is involved? I hardly need to remind you that, in the case of CD-ROM/BD-ROM based systems, the tolerance for bit errors on "clean" discs has to be zero.

 

I remember too. I think I was just about to see if I could buy that unit through the forums, but something came up. :/

I wish I could find the original thread now (I think it was created in the marketplace forum).

 

ProgrammingAce posted about the audio capabilities of the PSX model as well as a link to the mod where you can increase quality.

Has anyone noticed that the youtube video, the PSX the guy is holding is NOT the 1001, but at least 5501 and up.

I have a 1001 and I see pinouts on the PCB for SVideo output...

 

here you go
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9581

 

You'd think that wouldn't you, however just consider the quality of various DVD drives for various consoles. Some have better lasers, more accurate longer lasting, less likely to skip, better gearing and dampening etc. Although we generally discuss data here in terms of software, the same is true when discussing audio CD.

Digital or not, the means by which the format is actually loaded, held, read is vitally important.

As a very basic example of what a good mechanism can do, a poor mech would be responsible for skipping errors as you walked across a floor for instance if the dampening was poor. If you tapped the top of the mechanism, the CD would skip is another example. Error correction within cheap mechanisms would mean it took a lot longer for the CD to return to normal play. More expensive mechanisms tend to cushion your CD and vastly increase accuracy without the necessity of error correction. Audiophiles hate audio correction as it tends to throw in variables and just back fill.

 

Ah, I agree that this is very important, I thought you were somehow implying that the CD mechanism influences audio quality directly.

 

Trust me, there is probably a forum out there dedicated to that very topic. I personally don't think it's "that" crucial, however I've seen $5000 transport mechanism reviews claiming it does have a direct effect. Not convinced, but I do like a mech that doesn't sound as loud as early PS loading (for example).

 

Oh my, I did a search and there've been a couple of fools BINing SCPH-1001's on ebay for as high as $1000 and $500 :O

Hmm, now would be the time to reassemble that 1002 whose case I used to hide weed from my parents while I used the mobo for experiments

 

Even if you wanted to the 1001s have trash for laser assemblies for a variety of reasons. Not a one of you can claim to not have heard of putting it on it's side!

I've got 2 in my closet, one just needs a new laser.

 

i got 5 of these in my loft, all working, 1 mint in box, think they worth selling?

 

Realistically you might be able to get $100 from the MIB one you have, the others: $10-$20.

 

What?

Old? Delta sigma is used in everything today

 

A: I don't want to put a SPDIF on the PS1 as it is not necessary for CD play back on this unit, although I wouldn't mind it for gaming as I could then use it in conjunction with my DSP amp. Not something I'd really want to do with my music.

B: The DAC inside the PS1 is old technology. I assume you are not into multi-bit DAC systems such as 24bit which provide great audio accuracy?

As they work differently it's harder to immediately compare them, but as 1bit DAC is the cheaper solution, considered less accurate and has lower resolution it is generally considered by audiophiles to be lower quality.

Most manufacturers use 1bit because its far cheaper. Of course your ears dictate.

 

lol, certainly not $6,000 each. I have looked at the other PSx in my attic and I have 3 with the same outputs. I bet most people on this site have suitable equipment.

 

Why wouldn't SPDIF be of interest for CD playback? There is absolutely no loss in intercepting a stream of data before it hits the DAC. If you need uncorrected audio, you'd still get it through SPDIF.

How is the DAC inside a PS1 old technology? (Assuming it is "1-bit") "1-bit" DACs are the basis for SACD. Hell, for all intents a 1% R2R DAC is audiophile grade.

 

Actually, I'm wondering - if the mechanism sucks (sort of) and the DAC is "old" I'm trying to figure out what would make the PS sound so good.... it must be the SPU. But why? The SPU was custom-designed for the PS, there's no reason it should sound exceptionally well.

Also, I'm wondering how the SPU copes with CD audio as it appears to be unable to play true PCM sound - ONLY ADPCM. Memory is hazy on the subject.

Oh by the way, I found bitmaster's site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060206053533/http://www.syncscroller.net/psx/psx-index.html

 

Feel free to fit SPDIF if you wish, I prefer to use RCA or BNC. Suits my needs better and I wouldn't need SPDIF for music playback. ;-)

Again, it's generally accepted that multi-bit technology, which came along after 1-bit (thus newer) is more accurate and less noisy. I'm not up for an arguement about it, if you prefer 1-bit technology and SACD then fair play to you, however considering 1-bit technology fucks up dithering, multi-bit is now more common. This is really a great paper on the technology: http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/DeltaSigma/DeltaSigma.html

Plus Wolfson produced a white paper, which is brilliant at explaining the benefits of one over the other: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/AudioDAC_whitepaper.pdf

Oddly enough, we are really arguing at cross purposes as I actually like the sound of the PS playback inspite of the technologies limitations.

Can I just say one thing now. I am not an expert, but an enthusiast who's used a pile of equipment and worked with a lot of it through the years whether in studio or store. Please don't imagine for a second I immediately know all the bollocks that gets thrown at me, but there is nothing more frustrating than an discussion purely based on stats & figures. I don't want to have an arguement over a PSx lol

So, if you have one of these PSx units or have ever considered it a lovely little CD player or have an opinion on how Sony managed to generate so much excitement in the audiophile world, feel free to jump in now!

 

Cheers for that, so if anyone does want to fit a digital out, that's the link to use!