PS2 - Disgusting YPbPr - RGBs and true VGA @ 1080p

Not sure if correct forum - But...

Looking for help understanding how I can go about fixing the PS2s absolutely disgusting video quality. Despite many, many rewatchings of RGB210 from 'My Life in Gaming', while polished, it doesn't seem 100% complete, or as in depth as I need.
Currently I'm using brand new high quality D-Terminal cables from Japan paired with the XRGB3 at 1080i / 480p where supported. Unfortunately it still looks like the dreaded yellow 'compost it'. I'm not sure if this can be addressed with recapping or other mods / rgb bypasses etc?

Recently I've briefly heard about citrus3000psi and his mod on removing 'Sync on Green' and outputting 1080p over RGBs. I haven't yet tried this yet, but I have my doubts if my XRGB3 would even accept 1080p over RGB scart. Also, after looking at the mother board, I've noticed that H and V sync can be tapped directly off conveniently sized pads. Plus I've seen VGA output modes in GSM... thus brings me here: Is a true VGA mod possible? (not VGA adapters). PS2 model is a mod chipped SCPH-50002 PAL console. With a VGA mod, is it still possible to retain original AV, even if I just have to use a 5+ pole switch and separate 15 d-sub output socket? Probably necessary as I have found that quite a few games refuse to run in anything higher than 480i. Oh speaking of GSM, how on earth do I get 240p out? Even my PS1 games are being run in 480i and I don't see any options to change this.

This may be unrelated - But just some things I've discovered on the XRGB3. It does have a VGA port, but according to the japanese manual, it only supports 640x480 RGBHV 31kHz or RGBs 15kHz. Fortunately as of last night, I have tested the PC in over DVI-I supports legacy VGA, and I've successfully tested a PC outputting 1920x1080 at 60Hz and 32bit colour, albeit the XRGB was very buggy and doesn't like but working now and video quality. Something to do with low output display dotclock timing / blanking mode. Unfortunately the horizontal dot / skew is borked. Hopefully the PS2 wont suffer the same bugs / quirks.

If anyone can help point me in the right direction / help my understand these other weird and wacky video modes, I'd super appreciate it

 

I'm no expert, but this is a lot of the info I've gathered over the past two years on PS2 video stuff. Some of it came from very knowledgeable people and some from my own tests.

Citrus's mod only disables RGsB (sync on green) and forces a constant RGBS output regardless of video mode. 1080p can only be forced using the latest versions of GSM and it is just like the 1080i mode but progressive scan and still not a true 1920x1080 image. I recommend running games in 480p instead as the PS2 isn't capable of a true 1920x1080 image.

A RGBHV mod is possible and plenty of people have done it. You can even use it to output 240p and 480i content. If you want to save space, you could also add a switch to swap the S-video Luma/Chroma lines on the multi-out with H-Sync/V-Sync and use a custom cable if you really wanted to.

As for the XRGB-3's VGA port, I remember people using it for 240p and 480i content on RGBHV so it might work. If not, try citrus's mod or use a sync combiner like the Kenzei or an Extron RGB 201 Rxi (I recommend this as it can take RGBS and RGsB and then convert it to normal RGBS or RGBHV; PS2 requires a sync stripper for RGBS mode though).

The VGA modes are only officially used by the Linux kit and they force a RGsB Sync on Green output even if you set the PS2 to YPbPr Component mode. These modes work fine with games over normal component cables but it outputs RGsB so you will need a sync stripper or a monitor that accepts Sync on Green, which is a lot more common than people would like to believe.

No idea on how to get 240p output with GSM. NTSC Non-Interlaced is supposed to do this iirc but I can't get it to work right even on my Sony PVM. Running the games without GSM like normal should output 240p.

Hope this info helps!

 

So does this mean that your video has a yellow tint? It shouldn't...
Did you check the RGB/Component setting, in case you set it to the wrong setting instead?

If I remember right, you need to use an older version of GSM. But even so, I think it cannot completely influence the PS driver. Maybe because it works differently from the normal libgraph libraries.

Since the OP may be very interested in video quality, the explanation for this is that the frame buffer is usually just the right size for NTSC or PAL, so even 720P would involve magnification. This is done by the hardware, so perhaps this is why some people say that the 1080I/1080P modes do have some use (it avoids bad upscalers?).

It should be interlaced NTSC or PAL. Unless you're referring to something else?

 

Thanks for the brief explanation sp. The 1080 modes do have their uses like you said. I remember the days of interlaced before you saved me from it lol

I'm referring to the default PS2 video output for playing PS1 discs, without using GSM like on a fully stock retail unit.

 

Firstly, I’d like to point out that I am specifically trying to address video signal quality. Not to be confused with resolution, or graphics rendering.

I'll have to double check with a retail PS1 disk and no homebrew running. 240p may only run on select titles, like megaman etc.

I also own 2 high quality RGB scart monitors (consumer grade CRTs) Works great with dual outputs from gscartsw lite. Too bad it doesn't support YPbPr or anything highres (480p+) as it is a shame for high res games.
The internal 1080i rendering is supported titles, GT4, Tourist Trophy looks fantastic when compared to 480p. Unfortunately GSM does nothing for changing internal rendering resolution - it seems to be faking it - ie, basic upscaling.

I’ve tried to take some photos with my phone this morning, however its colour depth is very shallow, so its very hard to see the ringing artefact, though I can assure you its very noticeable by eye in person.


Also notice the shimmering jailbars. (See youtube link) (disregard brightness flashing – that’s the goofy cameras auto exposure)


Also, what happened to 32bit colour???

 

The fundamental problem is that the PlayStation 2 has not much VRAM. There's only 4MB of it, which is why there's not much use for it's higher-resolution video modes.

That's bad. I think we can say there is some interference.
From what I remember, none of my PlayStation 2 consoles do that. Somebody else will have to help you though, since I don't deal with the electronics.

From this commit, you will probably want to use "EDTV 640x448p @60Hz 24bit" instead.
24-bit just means RGB with no alpha. Not sure when/why it doesn't need alpha for OPL's GUI though.

Maximus32 renamed the video modes and added more technical settings to provide a choice to get rid of the jailbars along the sides.

 

I'll add more to this thread later - took more photos and video last night as I also have a thread on ps2-home.
In the mean time, what is with this jay-jay guy? I only just joined the forum and hes already issued 2 warnings on my account because I used photobucket to host my images, and because i asked him to add bbcode to a post (which he previously did by himself) and because i didnt put detailed descriptions to the photos I internally uploaded, because apparently he didnt know what he was looking at. Is this guy for real or what? Dont think I'll be using ps2-home anymore... lol /rant
http://www.ps2-home.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4831&start=10

 

Yes, those do look like interference. What model of PS2 is this?

Have you tried cleaning the AV port, maybe with contact cleaner?
Somebody once wrote about noise that some PS2 models give, but I've personally not seen it happen. Please note that while the author used the unofficial version numbers for identifying the model, the official way is to use chassis models.

@rama, did your exploration of video quality cover this? Or was it only regarding the quality of composite video output?

Or maybe, @TriMesh would have seen this happen before?

lol. And people think I was crazy for not wanting to "work" with him.

 

cheers sp. the link to the 'noise' page looks exactly like the issue I'm having... Mine actually looks slightly worse. Just my luck...
it's a SCPH-50002 PAL. I'll have to check what chassis revision I have. I'll re-upload my previous photos too when I get back home.
Since it appears to only affect the YPbPr output, hopefully bypassing component output all together with a proper RGB bypass amp / VGA mod... Hopefully that could rule out any monkey business with SoG as my upscaler doesn't support it anyway.
I haven't been able to find any detailed information on a VGA mod though. I've seen a few modders videos from a decade or so back, but they seem to be popular in non-english speaking countries... Though I'm sure I've bearly scratched the surface...

 

Aaaaand looks like I've just been banned... wow
http://www.ps2-home.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4831&start=10

 

I recommend trying citrus3000psi's new RGB C-Sync mod before doing the VGA mod. Also as I've stated before, a sync stripper works wonders with sync on green if you wire it up correctly. I have a PC CRT that doesn't accept Sync on Green and it worked great with my Sync Strike and a rewired SCART to RCA adapter in 480p mode. You could even build a custom PS2 sync stripping circuit into the SCART head with a switch to toggle between RGBS and RGsB for the sync stripper... or use an Extron RGB 201 Rxi like I do nowadays (requires a sync stripper for non-480p content on the PS2).

Whichever option you choose, hopefully it works out great for you.

 

Nope. I've got experience too.

Back to the topic. I always use component on PS2. I don't remember seeing any artifacts in OPL, but uLaunchElf with it's harsh black on grey has terrible ringing. I never figured out whether it's the ps2 video hardware, the scaling, the cable or the component switch box.

 

Have you actually confirmed whether the cable is good? I never knew that there were D-terminal cables!
If you got another PlayStation console (either PS, PS2 or PS3), maybe you can plug it in instead to see if the lines persist.

Oh right, you mentioned it at the start. It would be a H (v9), I (v10) or J-chassis (v11) console.

 

I'm not 100% sure what motherboard revision I have exactly. the serial numbers on the case were inconclusive. ***-01 FOXC. Model D?

So I've so far stripped down the mobo to start looking into doing the SoG delete. However I understand this will kill component output. I'll have to think of a creative way to introduce a multi pole / single throw switch to make it easily reversible. Issue being my xrgb probably wont accept anything higher than 640x480 lines at 15kHz. However it will accept 1080p at 31kHz - VGA spec. That feature I'd really like to make use of with games such as GT4 and Tourist Trophy.
On a side note, however it seems the biggest issue is I can't find H and V sync on a series SCPH-5000x motherboard.
https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id..._sync#theory_of_rgb_operation_scph-500xx_unit
Anyone have access to detailed information such as service manuals and/or schematics + PCB layouts? Unfortunately these are a multi layered PCB and I don't have xray vision
It may take some time to perform these mods - I'll need to order a new scart cable (I'd much rather make my own, but I can't find just the AV plug as its proprietary). I don't have any other cables to compare the D-terminal cables with except for composite. Funny enough, it is jailbar free. All I can say about them is they are a good brand (OEM 2nd Gen Sony), they feel quite heavy and are quite stiff (giggity). Well stiffer than cheap VGA cables but not as crazy as super SVGA cables (which is now my go-to for custom cables) However this accounts for nothing unless I actually chop them and see the conductors+shielding for myself. Plus it looks like it has very deep coloured gold plating... not much nickle or silver! They look like they're very well made. I'd actually be quite disappointed if its the D-terminal cables to be faulty as they weren't cheap & rather difficult to source. My wife picked up the wrong ones and I only found out 10,000km later when she opened her suitcase ^^; Bought another set and the in laws were nice enough to EMS the correct ones... so they better be good lol
They are legit Sony brand.


Only slightly off topic. I did this mod chip install maybe 2004 ish? Is this brand still any good by todays standard?

Anyway, I may have to put this on hold briefly as interstate family issues are taking priority atm. Grandads pushing his 'best before' date, so I'll be on the road a fair bit over the next few weeks I assume.

 

Oh, this again. I would guess it is a H-chassis, GH-023. Even though the chassis letter seems to be missing, it would make sense if they wanted to say that it was (back then) the SCPH-50000.
Thankfully, the SCPH-50000 series seemed to be one mainboad per chassis model. So if you know your mainboard model, it is possible to tell what chassis it is.

Since you've got this console disassembled, you can refer to its mainboard model and locate its service manual. We have service manuals for H (GH-023) and I-chassis (GH-026).
The only SCPH-50000 series manual that wasn't leaked, was the J-chassis.

Yeah, that looks very nice.

All the best to you with solving this issue.

 

I posted a picture of the points I used for vga output on my 50002 in this thread https://assemblergames.com/threads/ps2-hdmi.68183/#post-962123. It's on the gh-023 board. Here is the service manual https://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fet...sony-ps2-scph-50000_series_service_manual.pdf

The hsync and vsync are outputs from the video DAC which have handy solder points.

 

I get those jailbars with my SCPH-90002 model, when using RGB with sync on luma.
They're gone when using component video.
My other consoles don't have that issue with the RGB lead.

My theory is that it's the modchip. My slim has one installed as well.