PS2 HDMI?

I would like to preface this all with the fact that I'm a noob when it comes to engineering.

That said, for a long time now I have been very frustrated with the PS2 video quality on digital displays. My scph-70XXX series had atrocious video, and while my scph-3003r is better, it's still not perfect.

Issues:
1) Finding a decent pair of PS2 component cables for digital displays is hard, and expensive.
2) Most digital displays with decent component connectors are so old that they have no scaling function for the video coming from the PS2 to display at the proper screen size.
3) The PS2 Analog video encoder (IC 206) is trash, and got worse as the console revisions went on.
4) RGB gets disabled when using DVD's due to the Digital video encoder (IC205) injecting Macrovision protect for YCbCr, but cannot for RGB, so it gets disabled for DVD playback.
5) The Digital video encoder (IC 206) also mixes the sync signal into the video feed, which I believe makes any video extraction past this point of raw RGBHV impossible.

So my proposed idea for extracting the best video from the PS2 (SCPH-3003r) is to get the video signals needed as follows:
Hsync - tap from right of IC 205
Vsync - tap from right of IC 205
R - R244 right of IC 202
G - R245 right of IC 202
B - R246 right of IC 202 (RB303 on the SCPH-3003r mobo does appear to have an amplified RGB signal, but it's further down the lines than the previous points)

Again I'm not an electrical engineer, but should we not be able to make a decent VGA out connector at least with this? Which could be hooked up to a decent VGA to HDMI adapter?

I would ideally not like to use the VGA D-sub 15 connector and opts for BNC, but let's be practical here. I also understand that tapping the digital video from the board for an analog connector to convert back to digital with HDMI is silly. But I really don't have the know how to take said signals, a digital video encoder, a FPGA, and an HDMI transmitter to stay full digital, similar to the Ultra HDMI for N64 and the HDnes, which I believe both use Altera cyclone III FPGA's.

Any feedback from anybody would be appreciated, input as to pitfalls to watch out for before I start tinkering with the PS2, etc.

 

You know, I was upset about this too. I ended up just settling with a 480p VGA CRT, Sony PVM-14N6U, Extron RGB 201 Rxi, and analog RGB with the PS2. The system looks so much better on these than my LCDs. I also use emulation on a couple of games like Persona 3 FES just so they look even better.

I have been told by knowledgeable members on here before that the PS2's YPbPr encoder has interference issues and causes an image that is inferior to RGB. I have seen in comparison videos lately that using the offficial PS2/PS3 component cables gives you a picture that is just as good as RGB, however.

If you have a memory card with FMCB 1.9.5, you can install a custom DVD driver for the PS2 that enables RGB and progressive scan output for DVDs. There's a thread for it here.

I know none of the info above would've helped in your quest. I hope you can get pure digital HDMI from the console though. With the HDMI mods for the NES, N64, GC, and DC, PS2 is a good logical step forward. You may want to ask Unseen and OzOnE for help on this project as they came up with HDMI mods for the GC and DC, respectively.

 

I would love a PVM, I think we all would, to display our analog content in pristine quality, but it costs so much. The only other "solution" would be a CFW 60gb PS3, but that has its own issues.

Yes, I think the YPbPr issues only get worse with higher console revisions. Who knows what model was used for the comparison, the earlier consoles YPbPr is very comparable to RGB.

Interesting, I will have to do that.

It's alright, thanks for the reply, and for the tips. I'll keep working at it.

 

FYI the macrovision stuff is enabled/disabled in software (hence kHn's works). The interesting thing about this console, is that a lot of functionality is programmable (unlike the PS).

The PS3 component cable is the same as the PS2's.

I can't help you with your goal of getting digital output, unfortunately. But I am sure it makes sense and is hence plausible...
I vaguely remember somebody asking a question about this, and somebody (@TriMesh?) wrote that you might want to beware that the output from the GS might not be suitable for driving external outputs on its own.

 

Why was the PS not so programmable? not designed as so? locked down more? or was it due to its age?

But the issue is still that they aren't that available either. I made my own for the OG xbox from the 360's component cables, I might pick up another 360 lead and do the same for the PS2.

Yeah, I have seen others mention that they got a black screen from the RGB on the points mentioned, but they never specified the RB303 points. They also mentioned that they needed to be amplified, so maybe that was all it needed?
I will try the VGA first. Then once that is sorted I will try my hand at full digital. Something like an ADV7511 seems to be viable, and I can find all the pins it needs on the 3003r motherboard, it's just a matter of making the board.

Thanks for the input anyway. Also slightly of topic, you seem to know a lot about the PS2 (from other posts and such), why did we never see an ODDE for the PS2?

 

IMO it was because it was the era of hardware. On the other hand, the PlayStation 2 was between the mostly-hardware era to the software-driven era of the PlayStation 3.
It's also why you no longer see modchips, in the era of the PlayStation 3.

I am not surprised if they actually have a way to make the PS2 region-free, since all PlayStation 2 consoles are technically the same in functionality. Earlier sets do not correctly output the out-of-region video mode (i.e. NTSC set cannot output totally correct PAL), but the G-chassis and later can do that.
It's just sad that they never abstracted the video mode selection part of the GS, hence it isn't possible to change the video mode selected by games.... without extra work to intercept writes to the GS registers (i.e. how GSM works).

Games no longer directly access hardware, having to go through Sony-provided IOP kernel modules. As such, it becomes possible to alter the functionality of the drivers without changing the game. Although Sony does not do this during runtime, we exploit this design to emulate the optical drive in software (hence yes, we have ODDEs like OPL, but not in hardware form!).

There's also support for updates (not available for the PS, from what I know), which we exploit for FHDB and FMCB.

What if you order online? I think it's partly because we're entering the era of the PS4, which doesn't use these cables.
By the era of the PS3, HDMI was already supported and there was no need for those cables.

 

I thought so. But I kinda miss those PS days.

It is weird that they opted not to do such a thing. I'm glad that we at least have GSM now though, even if it's not without its flaws (noise, scaling issues, etc).

Oh, I see, I wondered how OPL did things. So where do the OPL compatibility issues arise from?

Haha yeah, but that also bit us in the ass with 2.20 in the 900XX series

Again though I don't want to really invest in component in the long run due to the analog video encoder being what it is on the PS2.

 

It is possible that they just didn't think that it would be a very widespread thing.
Plus the GS can actually do a lot of video modes... most of which, aren't used for retail software. For example, it can do VGA, but only PS2Linux officially used it.

Noise? There's not supposed to be noise, since we're just changing the parameters that the game passes to the GS.
But there are issues with deinterlacing games (there's no one-size-fits-all method so far) and scaling.

There are various reasons. Those that I am aware of (as of 2015), include:

• Bugs in the games (i.e. changing the characteristics of the CD/DVD drive causes bugs to surface). Hence the introduction of the "Accurate reads" compatibility mode, to minimize the differences in transfer rate and transfer length.
  
• Inaccuracies in the implementation of the libcdvd functions within OPL (while the API is officially documented, the internal behaviour of the functions are not known - this includes the behaviour of the CD/DVD drive)
• Lack of memory. Despite the fact that 2MB is perhaps plenty of memory for drivers, some games were made to use up as much as possible. Hence it is impossible to take up more memory than occupied by the original modules.
• Bugs in OPL itself. It's perhaps getting rare... but there are telltale signs that support for the USBExtreme format causes weird problems in some games, even though it should not.
• Anti-HDLoader games.

It's the final revision that had ROM v2.30. I personally believe that perhaps, Sony had a policy of removing all expansion mechanisms from the consoles, once the end of the console's era is determined.
Other than the removal of the update mechanisms, the on-board expansion connector (CN505/CN5505) was also removed. This is similar to how the PIO interface was removed from the final PlayStation model.

But have you seen what it is like? If you're not one of those purists, then it isn't actually bad.
It's not like the PlayStation 2 will give you sharp graphics either, due to how low-resolution its textures tend to be.

If you must get digital output, then all the best to you with your modding project!

 

Many games officially supported 480P progressive scan output using either the component or the VGA cable.

 

Don't think it was me - I haven't actually tried, but I did look at the digital outputs from the GS on a scope at one point, and they look reasonable. It's basically just 24 bit (8:8:8 RGB) video data and some sync lines - from the look of it, the GS always outputs in RGB and the component conversion is handled in the video encoder. There is an I2C bus running to the video encoder chip, but I haven't investigated it and I have no idea if there is anything subtle going on (but I suspect not).

 

Just post it here:
http://forums.modretro.com/index.ph...al-playstation-2-portable-design.14633/page-4
Don't know if he'll make it someday. Also AD is pretty expensive IC. Chrontel is much more cheaper solution. As TriMesh said there is no way to make it work without i2c controls.
The second way to acheave your target is FPGA. More like that:

Probably that project is more suitable for PS1/PS2 usage with some code corrections.

 

He means the VGA format, not VGA cables. The VGA format is defined as 640x480p@60Hz. Most, if not all games do not use this resolution in 480p mode iirc. Instead, they use some weird resolutions. You can see what resolution the game uses in the PS2 emulator PCSX2.

@sp193 so has doctorxyz shown any interest in releasing that beta build of GSM with the ATLUS speed fix? I know it only worked at the VGA 640x480p@60Hz and Test @30Hz modes in my tests but it would be wonderful for the public to try it out.

 

Personally, I feel like the list of games that support progressive is small, compared to the list of games ever made. But then again, I don't have all games.

I don't know, sorry. I don't actually talk to him much. @docxyz

 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but surely you wouldn't be able to get VGA from all titles just because there are RGB and HV-signals closer to the GS?

 

Ah I see, hopefully he will respond with his thoughts on this then. Playing Persona 3 FES in RGB on a 480p PC CRT with the right speed looked so good. I wish I could properly compare it to 480i but with a 500 line standard definition PVM and a consumer grade enhanced definition 0.28mm dot pitch NEC MultiSync A700, I don't think it's a fair comparison XD

I really need to get a BVM D series to test these things... those do 240p to 1080i and don't upscale.

I think you might be. He is trying to get a better video image, not resolution. You can still get an image with RGBHV, you would just need a monitor that accepts 15kHz and interlaced 480i, which plenty do. For the ones that don't accept RGBHV, you can always use a sync combiner like a Kenzei or Extron RGB ### Rxi to convert it to RGBS or RGsB.

 

So the point is to bypass the video encoder and amplify the RGB signals himself, but still only have 240p/480i?

Never had much issue with the PS2 RGB signal as it is. 240p-titles at least look great.

 

I haven't had an issue either. I'm using those cheap Walmart branded universal component cables with an s-video plug providing sync for RGB. Of course, not everyone has the ability to do RGB on a good upscaler or professional/broadcast grade CRT. Direct digital to digital HDMI would be great for this purpose as you get the best picture possible and most HDTVs will do at least 480i or 480p. Iirc 240p was recently added to the HDMI specification along with 480i earlier so support shouldn't be an issue on newer sets.

I hope the OP can get a PS2 HDMI mod done. If you do, a couple of suggestions:

1. Please for the love of wallets use an affordable FPGA if possible.
2. Linedoubling of 240p/288p to 480p/576p.
3. Low lag deinterlacing of 480i/576i to 480p/576p.
4. Direct resolution output since many HDTVs support 480i/576i over HDMI and some can even do 240p/288p.
5. Digital audio could be tapped from the optical TOSLINK output if it is easier.

I'm no tech expert, just a guy who would like to see pure digital HDMI out of the PS2.

 

I've just recently got around to modding my 50003 ps2 for VGA. I decided to grab RGBHV from the outputs of the video encoder (IC211 on 5000x) because there were nice big test points to solder to. I haven't tried grabbing it before the DAC so I can't say if those points will work (they should in theory as they are also analogue RGB).



Here is were I tapped my signals on the 5000x mobo. I then passed the signals through a VGA pcb based on mmmonkey's schematic. The only issue was getting my monitor to recognise the signal as the ps2 boots in 15kHz RGB. I had to go into OPL and force 32Khz VGA. I can't find an option to turn on Progressive mode in normal Ps2 menu screen. The picture was contaminated with SoG but I plan to use @citrus3000psi method of desoldering CSYNC to remove it. Your 30003 DAC has a handy 'OFF switch'.

You could do a VGA mod and then pass it through a VGA2HDMI type circuitry like this http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/hdmi-made-easy.html but u may also be able to get all of your digital signals direct from the GS and just use the ADV7513 (omitting the AD9983A).

 

Most PS2 games don't support 480p. I think a good solution for what you want to do would be to take normal RGBS video from the PS2 and use a scaler like the Framemeister - or a cheaper one, if the Framemeister is too expensive. I'm not sure if the Framemeister does deinterlacing - if not, there's probably an RGB scaler that will.

For my setup, my PS2 outputs RGBS to my PVM. If I want to, I can play 480p and higher games on my CRT computer monitor using component; I don't do that very often though, because I don't have many games that support it, and also because it's kind of a pain to switch the cables. The PS2's RGB output looks pretty good.

 

Yeah I'm leaning towards sticking with RGBs due to the lack of support for 480p VGA. But I think OPL allows u to force 480p VGA and it allows me to run it through my computer monitor when the missus is hogging the Tv. I plan on building an OSSC for linedoubling/ hdmi output as a frameister is a bit out of my price range. I think the OSSC does deinterlacing but I'm not sure.

I would ld be interesting to see if the OP is able to tap the digital signals from the GS for a HDMI output.