Saturn and its 2D capabilities

Sorry if this comes off as very uninformed, but I have a question about the Saturn. Is it actually the best 2D console ever made or could, say the X-Box, due better 2D? I've seen the Saturn refered to as the king of 2D about a million times but I am not sure if it is called that because it was the 2D powerhouse of its generation, because it has so many great 2D games or because it actually is still the best 2D console to date.

 

It's mainly b/c it has great 2D games. Given the time (and the market) the Xbox could slaughter it I'm sure, but Johnny Gamer isn't really into these games, unfortunately.

 

Yeah, technically the Saturn and the NeoGeo are the finest 2D sprite pushing machines. Much more capable than PS1, Jaguar, N64... etc.

 

I had always heard about how the saturn was supposedly great at 2D......but then I played Dracula X - NitM on my saturn and was disapointed. Not only was there loads of slowdown but I also found the 2D graphics to be of a poorer quality than the PSX version.

 

Anyone who claims the PSX was poor at 2D is severely missinformed.

Granted, Saturn versions in at least 60% of the cases may be mildly better, but usually only just. Ram cart is obviously a cheat lol

But granted, Saturn was a 2D beast, and so it should be better than the Megadrive and SFC before it.

 

Sins of the Sons

The Saturn release of Dracula X was a straight-over port, not a conversion. Operating on one CPU and just barely wired into the VDP... basically PSX code running on life-support on the Saturn. The tragically done port was handled by Konami KCET, who I believe to no longer be with us...
~Krelian

 

True True. 2mbs isn't enough for space to have superb 2d capabilities. Still though, I'm amazed at what some developers could squish into 2mbs of space. Games such as Black and White PSX Version. I don't think it was ever released here in the USA but it was due to come out in Europe. The PC version requires a good system plus lots of RAM to operate.

 

The Saturn also has 2MB of memory, it's the amount and organisation of graphics memory that's the difference. And as was pointed out, games like SotN proved you can do great-looking 2D games on the Playstation. The main obstacle was Sony's publishing policies, not the hardware.

In terms of capabilities, the Dreamcast and later stomp on the Saturn.

 

DC is a great 2D machine without a doubt. But the thing is. Having a dedicated 2D processor with lots of RAM is better than having a 3d CPU doing 2d operations with 16mb of RAM. Like making a NEO GEO AES with 64mb RAM. Think of all the graphical wonderness.

 

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...there is no such thing as sprites...everything nowadays is done properly in 3D...

As for the Saturn it is great,but none of these systems can even "see" the capabilities of newer systems both is numbers and in quality.See,when you do stuff properly in 3D you can actually show millions of the so called sprites,use stuff such as proper filtering,mip mapping and stuff to make things actually look better.

So it is not only about numbers...

 

The Neo-Geo doesn't need much memory since it can fetch whatever it needs from cartridge (the CD based versions however..). And if you want to support effects such as zooming and warping you basically have a polygon accelerator. Separate backgrounds are not needed with modern hardware as they have enough power to handle both backgrounds and sprites with ease.

Only a handful of games ever needed them. Games with massive amounts of animation frames were never that popular due to the cost of making them.

Sprites are really only a special case of a textured polygon.

 

PC Engine CD with an Arcade Card. Now that was good, for its time and considering the limitations of the original HU card unit technology.

 

I have trouble believing that the Arcade Card contains 2 megabytes of RAM and ROM inside a 1"x0.5" space.

I always thought that the Arcade Card DUO (Super CDROM also) had no RAM because it already contained the extra 2M aka 256 kibibytes. I thought that was why the DUO Arcade Card is thin, while the PRO card is fat and originally costed $100 more.

 

The Saturn can do transparency if the programmers can be arsed to program it in. Even the first batch of games such as Astel and Magic Knight Rayearth had some transparency effect. The Saturn can't do 3D transparecy effect though without special coding. Burning Rangers gave it a good shot. One thing I have noticed about Saturn transparency effects in 3D is that if the transparent item is viewed on an angle, lines will appear through it. Take a look at one of the later stages on Burning Rangers where you have to walk on a transparent bridgeway and you'll see what I mean.

Oh, just remebered one of the Saturns great transparency effect that really impressed me. On Panzer Dragoon Zwei there's a boss fish that dives in and out of the water. While it's under the water it looks semi transparent.

Yakumo

 

Yes that is indeed fantastic, i have a fettish for water effects in games and that is astounding even today, for me at least :lol:

A lot of Saturn, and indeed Neo Geo transparency was down by creating a mesh, like a graphical blanket missing out every other pixel, or making the grsaphic flash very fast to appear seethrugh, which in some caes just looks like a rediculous graphic mess up heh.

 

Yep. Only software which is wierd that Sega never put in the instruction set into the SH2.