Saturn and its 2D capabilities

What?

The Saturn has two types of hardware transparencies: sprite-sprite and sprite-background. These two modes suffer from a number of restrictions, which is probably why they were not used so often.
- Sprite-sprite blending is always 0.5*a+0.5*b, which is why most places where it's used you get dull, smudgy graphics
- Due to the frankly idiotic way sprites are drawn you get artifacts where the same pixel is blended several times
- Sprite-sprite blending does not work properly only on VDP2-palettized sprites (this is also true for most VDP1 effects)
- Sprite-sprite blending is fairly slow (which is why the mesh option exists) and can not be used in high-resolution modes
- Sprite-background blending can blend in ratios of 1:32 to 31:1, but again, no increase in brightness.
- There are only eight different background blending settings available, shared by all sprites and in particular all RGB mode sprites share the same setting
- Not all types of sprites allow background blending

Since sprite-background blending is "free" many games use only that mode, and with a bit of effort it can be hard to tell you're only blending with the background. None of the restrictions are absolute showstoppers, but I'd say the increased rendering cost and limited blending options were the main reasons sprite blending wasn't used too often. Especially after Playstation designers started to use its more advanced blending options, using the Saturn's half-transparency would just have meant more unfavourable comparisons.

 

Yes, I know that but it still can do them if the programmer wanted to program them in. So maybe a better way to say that the Saturn can't do transparency effect is to say that it can't do them from a hardware point only from a software point.

Yakumo

 

That doesn't make it any more true. See my previous post and the VDP1 and VDP2 manuals.

 

Yakumo,I would have to agree with you the first time mate,no matter if it is software o hardware,the SEGA SATURN can display transparency effects,period.If it couldn't how are they present in games??

I don't care how it is done,just that is was done.

This is not a personal attack at other people before jumping down my throat,I just agree with what Yakumo says.

What is all this other nonsense about sprites being polygons as well??

A sprite is a sprite and a polygon is a triangle,I fail to see the connection,but I am not technically clued up on this.The comment justs seems very far fetched to me.I know that most modern 2 dimensional games do not use sprites anymore and use polygons before someone says that.Ikaruga and Gradius 5 being recent examples of this technique and I must say looking at G5,it is a far superior technique.

As for the Saturn's sprite abilities,it was a beast.The sad fact is that most programmers never used the sprite abilities of the console to it's full and opted for ports instead.When the sprite hardware was used,it showed that the Saturn was made primarily for 2d,and there is no arguing with that fact,assembler correctly stated this earlier in the thread.My advice to you is to buy a Saturn and it's 2d specific games and you will see the power of the machine for yourself,the word is beautiful.Superior to Neo geo in my opinion.

 

I agree with old Nintymad on the polygon thing. I did 3 years of 3D and computer graphics in college, so I have firsthand seen and used each. I think people in general get confused over Cell Shading, with that, you have real 3D polygons but shaded differently to make them appear 2D. Games like Flashback and Another World used a slightly different process similar to old games like Elite to provide similar results.

 

On the Saturn, a freeform stretched sprite is the same as a textured quadrangle. It does not support triangles at all - if you want one you draw a quadrangle and give the same coordinates to two of the vertices.

Saturn and Playstation-era hardware further blurred the distinction between sprites and textured objects by having the video hardware draw them into a framebuffer instead of generating the graphics directly into the output signal like the Megadrive, SNES, GBA and so on.

Two isosceles right-angled triangles form a square. Texture the triangles and you have a sprite just like on the Saturn and Playstation.

 

Re: Sins of the Sons

KCEN, not KCET.

 

Ahhhh...I see where you are coming from now,well done for explaining that so clearly and in such a short space.

I still disagree with you on the sprite/polygon thing,cause if you connect two triangles,you still have two triangles that make a square,not a whole square with no connecting parts.Silly argument I know,but they still differ technically.

You seem like an extremely clued up and intelligent guy Antime,welcome to the board and I am really looking forward to further tech posts explaining things from yourself.Do you code professionally or just as a hobby???

 

Play the metal Slug game on Saturn or Sillohuette Mirage, or Parodius and the crowning gem of 2d games Guardian hereos to see the Saturn at it's best.It's so amazing even to watch today.I love Sega Saturn :smt023

 

Princess Crown is the one that drives me nuts, although the ones you mentioned are nothing to shake a stick at.

 

That is one hell of a hard game. Sort of wish it was more like the Super Famicom Asault Suit Valken than the Mega Drive Asault Suit Leynos.

Yakumo

 

You guys know they're remaking Valken for the PS2 yeah... it might even be out by now. Saw an ad for it at Messe Sanno yesterday.

 

If that's important, use GL_QUAD or point sprites.

Yes, not in the game industry though.

 

I love Princess Crown. The graphics are great, the gameplay is nice, the sound is OK, etc. And I love the loading screen; it has such a simple idea, but it fits so nicely.
It's a pity the game is in japanese though. I know there are some translation guides over the internet, but I don't like to have to read something at the computer monitor or a sheet of paper (if I print it) every time a dialog appears on the game.

 

We all love Sega Saturn,that's what we should be saying,wasn't it just the dog's balls when it had the right games running on it's hardware,forget the too ambitious 3d messes that were sometimes released on the machine and concentrate on 3d/2d games such as Nights,Thunder force 5,Mr. Bones,Taromoru(cannot remeber how this is spelt,the time warner extremely rare game,the one released just before they shut their doors in Japan),Radiant Silvergun( 3d at it's finest and the gorgeous for any system of that time) and the plethora of shoooters in sprite form such as Parodius;forever with me,metal Slug,Strikers 1945 2,Sokyugurentai,DodonPachi, and all those wondeful fighters such as marvel Vs. Capcom,King of Fighters,Dead or Alive, and the many many more wonderful games on the system.

It was a class system and still is,I still play it once a week at least and still have a fixation for Nights and Silvergun and the odd blast of Burning Rangers(great theme tune that has,I replaced Burning Rangers make it alright,with Sega Saturn makes you all right,Sega Saturn keeps you up all night,sing it,it goes with the tune).I also play the other shooters on it occasionally,Parodius being a fave for me. :smt040

 

Psychic Killer Taromaru? I don't know why people like that game so much. It's nice, but IMHO it's nowhere as good as many other Saturn gems. And I specially don't like its aim system

 

That's the game,I like itcause of that aim system you do not like.

It really is like a 2d Sin and Punishment with 3d bits exactly like Sin and Punshment.It is a great game in my opinion but it is not for everyone,more of a shooter's title thn anything else.Alot of people just say they like the game because of it's rarity level,most of the time they have nevr played the game and only seen it in screenshot's.