Secret Developer - Tose?

I don't know about you but for me English "say" is one syllable. Tosser without the "r" for me sounds like Japanese "tosse" with a double consonant "tsu".

 

japanese sounds like friggin spanish therefor it's tohseh SHHH!

 

I see what you are saying there but the sound for Tose if pronounced in Japanese would be more like "TO" from TOast and the "SE" would be like SEptember :nod:

Yaklumo

 

Oh geez, what have I started? :lol:

 

I'd heard of both Tose and Nextech before, though I didn't know the latter was entirely responsible for the Saturn conversion of Resident Evil - this explains how Capcom still had the resources to work on the ill-fated "Biohazard 1.5" project around the same time frame. Also, while still on the subject of Nextech, wasn't this group behind Cyber Speedway, which Sega then went on to publish in Japan under the less obvious title of Gran Chaser? Being something of a massive Saturn fanatic (as you've probably already noticed), I'd love to know what else they - and Tose, for that matter - contributed to my favourite platform...

 

"But Tose is by far the largest, and most secretive, developer of its kind."

I love how ignorant this guy is even after supposedly researching this for so long. He somehow assumes because all the sudden he's heard ot Tose that this means he now knows every other developer in existence...lol seems he didn't learn much in the end

 

Yes, Nextech did make Gran Chaser. The early versions of Gran Chaser looked quite different from the finished game as well. Yet another in development Saturn game I got to whiteness and yet another that vanished on that magical VHS tape.

Yakumo

 

This is old news, however....

I dont really get why some of you think that almost every crappy game out there was entirely outsourced while average and good one where only partially, or just completely in-house.

You guys need to think outside the box: Tose may be one of the oldest game companies there, and with all those years they sure have some good programmers in their staff.

Plus, if the article is right and companies do take the credit for Tose's work then theres no way to say for sure they werent involved in most games since the 8bits, with all the NDAs they had to sign....

 

......huh?

 

Yakumo, once again you've amazed me with your vastly superior knowledge of the Saturn - particularly when it comes to first generation titles that looked radically different in their prototype forms compared to what ended up appearing on shelves (for example, the "Knights" and "Soccer" SGI demonstrations that preceded Clockwork Knight and Victory Goal respectively, not to mention the original high resolution version of Daytona USA that allegedly ran much closer to its Model 2 counterpart). I had no idea Gran Chaser/Cyber Speedway changed that much during its production, although I'm sure any early build was probably just a workstation mock-up created before the Saturn hardware was finalised.

That one videotape could be the only source of footage for many of these games, and it's a damn shame no other copies have surfaced yet. On the other hand, I've lost my own fair share of videos over the years, including the entire set of UK commercials for the Saturn that were broadcast on television during Sega's winter '96 campaign, plus a few other things of interest to the truly hardcore Saturn enthusiasts - but sadly not the long-rumoured-yet-never-seen Virtua Fighter 3 character movement demo without background details. Despite all this, I remain confident these and other little-known surprises will appear in the public domain for all to see once more in the future, possibly even through Sega's own archival operations...

 

Indeed, that tape could be one of the holly grails of videogames.

And I wouldnt be expecting anything from SEGA since they havent given us anything yet, and if mike wallis is correct, most of the stuff from discarded projects is just trown away like garbage:-(

Yakumo you gotta get that tape again! bond-style!:lol:

 

I've heard so many people involved with Sega claiming they've lost all their hard work over the years, but what most of you are failing to notice is that the majority of these personnel aren't from its Japanese divisions. In fact, much of the bonus content featured in various retro packages over the years (such as those commercials from Sonic Jam, the prototype "History" video included with Virtua Fighter 3tb or even the now-infamous Shenmue Saturn Version footage, to give just a few examples) prove it's only the Americans that don't keep good archives of their work. With the exception of occasionally leaked previously unreleased titles, Sega's departments in Europe don't seem to have much to offer either, which leads me to suggest the concept of such disposal is a Western idea. Besides, it's long been rumoured that code - perhaps even master builds - from Saturn versions of games such as Sonic The Fighters, Virtua Fighter 3 and what later evolved into Sonic Adventure is still being kept to this day locked in the vaults at Sega of Japan, unlikely to be seen publically. Also, there was talk in the past from AM2 (who seem to like preservation more than any other development team) of Shenmue III being finished, with only the raw data now awaiting the process of being ported to a suitable console. For a company that supposedly discards material from abandoned projects, those interested should now focus on Japan. Then again, we all know how tight many developers can be when it comes to sharing information regarding software they didn't feel made the grade - just look at the continuing demand for anything to do with the prototype "1.5" version of Biohazard 2 or even the many preliminary tests created before the fourth game in this series came to be what it is today...

 

saying that Shenmue III has been finished is a bold statement.

To say the least, SEGA's financial reports and stock would reflect such a massive investment (if there was one) and most importantly, WHO would ever fund a game that isn't released, and then not sue to recoup the losses? Companies have shares, and shareholders are after money. Big-budget titles like Shenmue generate hype in stock price etc , and indeed require alot of capital to be developed. They wouldn't pass un-noticed if that was the case. That's like saying you could hide an elephant in the closet.

In my view, i d bet my left nut that shenmue III is something that isn't even a prototype yet. Not even concept art!

 

I'd really love to agree with you, but the original Saturn version of Shenmue was in development for years without being noticed - and that wasn't exactly a small-scale production!

 

yes, but you forget that:

a) the Saturn title's completion is a matter of debate. Some claim the game would span a great number of CD roms, yet all fail to mention how much content was actually developed beyond the original technology. As such, factoring the cost would depend on how far along development was.

b)the title was released on the DC, and the dreaded costs were mostly related to the DC development, which leads me to believe that the Saturn version was soon stopped after some advancements were made and the cost was focused on a product to be actually released.

Combining the two points forementioned, it is questionable if this scenario would apply in this case due to a number of other factors. More specifically:

a) the current costs of development for next generation systems are multiples of previous systems. That means that if X was spent for creating the game back in the day of the original, you should expect X*Y, with Y being at least 2-3.

b) if SEGA was to make Shenmue III, they as a company, should have some prospect of making revenue out of it. As it stands, SEGA is second to EA and doesn't need Shenmue to push revenue. Why? Because SEGA can get away with developing smaller titles for various platforms, instead of focusing on a multi-million dollar franchise with questionable financial results. The risk just isn't worth the while, business-wise.

c) The original Shenmue and Shenmue II did not make as much money as they were expected. I doubt the financial advisors at SEGA would advise them to do the same mistake twice, considering the company has been to hell and back, financially , and now enjoys relative calm and gradual prosperity.

To conclude, I shall bet my right nut too in saying that Shenmue III has not been developed at any percentage, let alone concluded as a project.

 

Barc0de, you make one hell of an argument and it's great to see that so many people still feel enough for Sega to write as much - if only the powers that be were as realistic and open minded!

I don't want to turn this into a Sega thread, but the development of Shenmue has proved to be the undoing of this once great company. There's absolutely no doubt AM2 had enough content finished on the Saturn to make up what later became the only two Dreamcast installments of the Shenmue saga, although Yu Suzuki has said in the past that his vision for the entire series was expanded quite a bit following the series' platform change. For example, we have since discovered that a second chapter - Ryo's boat journey from Japan to Hong Kong - was always meant to be referenced yet never actually seen, unless non playable "flashback" sequences were planned.

The only real thing we can say about Shenmue in its prototype Saturn form without any doubt is that it would have been a standalone game, presumably consisting of sixteen chapters... or should that be fifteen? According to several long-standing rumours, the final product would have consisted of eight discs, with two so-called "episodes" on each (despite the fact we know today such a thing would have been impossible, especially if the second part was not supposed to be played). This could be little more than a combination of basic mathematics and speculation on some unknown's part, but it's also equally as likely this was just one of the few details to have escaped under Sega's tight security net during this epic production's long development timeframe. After all, there was talk of a Virtua Fighter RPG way before any official announcement of Shenmue - not to mention the fact AM2 never really confirmed links between its FREE title and the Virtua Fighter world, in spite of the uncanny similarities between many characters.

Yu Suzuki has said in the past that his idea for Shenmue came about following visits to China, where he studied martial arts in preparation for Virtua Fighter. Originally it was conceived as a spin-off (in addition to another cancelled project - codenamed Chicago - which would have elaborated more on the background story of the Bryant siblings), only to grow into something bigger than the Virtua Fighter world. After severing all ties between Virtua Fighter and Shenmue, the concept of a side-story was once again revived with Virtua Quest, even though it's likely this came about as a result of further evolution from Suzuki's original vision and was not how he initially wanted "Project Berkeley" to be.

Returning to the present day, I've no doubt that the material needed to continue Shenmue exists. Come to think of it, there's a very good chance this was the case back when it was still a 32-bit project. With the face of Sega's management changing so much since the last Shenmue, it's reasonable to assume any new title in this still lucrative series would either be a direct continuation from the previous Dreamcast/Xbox title or - like the original Saturn version - a standalone condensation of Yu Suzuki's whole story into a genuinely massive experience. By not forcing players to splash out at least two different platforms to catch up on past installments (not to mention buying the necessary software as well), I feel the second option would prove more effective if Shenmue is to have any kind of future. Then again, the development costs would mean that a new Shenmue is going to be subject to huge levels of pressure it may never live up to. For that reason alone, it's probably a good thing Yu Suzuki is playing his cards very close to his chest and waiting before he makes any promises... In the meantime, it would be interesting to see more from the proposed Saturn version, unless we've been carefully given enough footage by AM2 to show that it really was close to completion without revealing too much about later chapters in the hope that this series may be finished one day!

 

Nope, it was running on real Saturn hardware. The view was more over of an overhead one (not present in the final game) and all on screen readouts looked different. The sled also looked different. The course I saw was possibly the desert area.

One or possibly two copies may still exist. The person I got it from lived in Northampton however all of his videos were ceased by trading standards (1000's of anime tapes you see) so they probably got all of his game stuff as well since I seriously doubt they would check every tape. Sadly I'm no longer in touch with this person.

The second copy may be in the possession of a wares arse hole who turned out just to be one greedy give me give me type. Now, I'm sure he got a copy of this tape however there's no chance in hell of getting a copy from him (If I made him a copy in the first place) NoComply knows who I mean :nod:

Yakumo

 

So the early version wasn't that different, except for maybe a few minor alterations such as the HUD, ship design and camera angle? Anyway, what's more shocking is how a video of such importance could ever be allowed to get into the hands of somebody with no intention of sharing it - never mind actually showing off its contents, unlike a certain person I know here who could never be accused of such blatant selfishness (mentioning no names, Yakumo)...

 

The course design was also different. that's why I said the level I saw was "possibly" the desert stage.

Yakumo