[SOLVED] HD Video Converter SCART/HDMI to HDMI 720p/1080p problems

This is the adapter I have: https://img.staticbg.com/images/oau...9/51/04def4d2-0978-c6f8-60d9-da2c81647ac8.jpg

I have two strange situations with it:

Case 1.
- connecting the PlayStation 1 with the official Sony RGB cable with the adapter through my LCD Monitor and TV 1080p, at the Input it shows PAL-60 and the image present interferences but have colors;
- connecting the PlayStation 1 with the RGC RGB cable (sync over luma, not the PACKAPUNCH, the older version) with the adapter through my LCD Monitor and TV 1080p, at the Input it shows NTSC and the image is clear/perfect but have colors.

Case 2.
- connecting the PlayStation 1 with the official Sony RGB cable with the adapter through my Sony Trinitron CRT (with 2 SCART sockets) the image present interferences but have colors;
- connecting the PlayStation 1 with the RGC RGB cable (sync over luma, not the PACKAPUNCH, the older version) with the adapter through my Sony Trinitron CRT (with 2 SCART sockets) the image is clear/perfect but the colors are in black and white.

The connection through my CRT is very simple (after reading and reading again the manual):
- a cable from the SCART output of the console will go in the SCART input 1 socket of the TV;
- from SCART input 2 socket of the TV, a SCART cable will go in the SCART input socket of the adapter;
- from the HDMI output socket of the adapter, a HDMI cable will go in the HDMI input socket of the monitor or HD TV;
- for the second SCART connection (between TV and adapter) I use high quality build SCART cable from profigold company (double shielded individual wires).

My PlayStation 1 model is SCPH-102 with ONEChip modchip installed; I play only NTSC games on it.

My TV model is KV-21CL10K and info about the SCART inputs:

So, what the hell is happening because I can't understand if the adapter, the RGB cables or the TV is the problem... What do you think?

Thanks!

 

I used a HD video converter with a original Sony RGB SCART cable.
I thought RGB SCART to HDMI.
Wrong.
It only took the composite output from the RGB fully pinned original sony PS1 / PS2 SCART cable.
So it could be your converter box, which does not support RGB to HDMI or other video signal compatibility issues.

 

I was thinking about this...

From what I know, the official Sony RGB SCART cable is sync on composite video and the RGC one is sync on luma.

What is strange that connecting the RGC one to the adapter the image is clear without interference but when I connect the official one to the adapter the image have interference... Connecting both to my TV works the same... The official one have more "electronics" in it than the RGC one...

In the manual of the adapter it say clear that RGB is supported.

Taken from another site which offer reviews about SCART adapters:

 

I have one of these boxes and briefly tried it and suspected the same thing... that the picture was taken from composite instead of RGB, because when I connected it to an N64 that was not RGB modded, it was still outputting a picture.

I ended up just getting one of those Retrovision Component RGB cables after instead.

Now I have that converter just collecting dust.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple internal revisions of this box.

 

But how do you explain that the adapter accept both cables but for the RGC one with sync on luma the image is good like the RGB signal is supported?

By the way, the image is in color for both cables if I use them directly to a LCD not through my CRT TV as I said in the first post (case 1).

Is there a method to test this adapter to see if RGB signal is accepted or not? In that way I can be sure if the adapter accept it or not.

 

OK, this is the problem. You are relying on the TV to uplink the RGB signal on SCART1 to SCART2 and I'm not aware of any TV that does that. I had a look at the service manual for your TV, and I can confirm it doesn't. The RGB signal comes in on pins 7, 11 and 15 of SCART1 (marked A7, A11 and A15 on the schematic) and the corresponding pins of SCART2 (B7, B11 and B15) are N/C, N/C and Composite input 2 - so the reason your HDMI converter isn't working is simply that there is no RGB signal for it to process and hence it falls back to composite.

 

Oh, that's why the black and white picture for case 2...

But what about the remaining problem of case 1 with connecting the adapter directly to my LCD monitor or LCD TV: both cables works, both offers colors but only the RGC one with sync on luma offers clarity, the official one have interference like some worms are crawling the image (it's like it change to composite or something)...

Like I said in case 1 in the first comment, connecting the RGC one at the status window (it's a little window that shows up when you connect the adapter to the TV) the Input say NTSC and connecting the official one the Input say PAL-60 when I'm playing NTSC games...
I don't understand why it doesn't say NTSC like the RGC one because both offers RGB...
I know that the official one have more components inside the SCART (I've opened it) but can this be a problem with this kind of adapter???
Another interesting thing, connecting my GameCube PAL (modded with XenoGC 2.0) with official RGB cable and playing NTSC games the adapter shows PAL-60.
I don't understand what's is happening here...

Thanks!

 

I have the same crappy "converter" as in your picture.
Sorry to say it, but it is worthless.
I do not even know where I left it, in the box, once used.
The manual can say RGB input , well it doesn't work.

On some TV's only scart 1 is RGB pinned.
Scart 2 and other are only composite pinned.

No idea how to solve this, from a distance.......

 

Someone posted this info:

In that case I don't have this problem... Using my adapter with the RGC cable which have sync on luma doesn't display a black and white image.

About SCART 2 on my CRT, in the manual it says that it supports S-Video only and not RGB.

 

Does the interference on the official Sony cable look like a checkerboard? If so, that's because it is sync on composite video. There are several game consoles that get crosshatching when using sync on composite video. Using Luma as sync or a pure C-Sync signal will stop this. I do not know why composite video does this sometimes but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will know why.

 

One other thing you should be aware of is that a SCPH-102 running NTSC software doesn't output a real NTSC signal - it outputs a 60Hz frame rate signal with NTSC color encoding but with a 4.43MHz (I.E. PAL standard) colorburst. This combination is sometimes called "NTSC-4.43" - but it's not the same thing as PAL-60 (PAL 60 is 60Hz frame rate, PAL encoding and a 4.43MHz colorburst).

If your converter is incorrectly identifying the signal as PAL 60 then that would certainly mess up the colors. That would also explain the difference in behavior between the cables - the modified one has the S-Video Y signal (luminance) wired to the SCART composite video input, so it's not seeing any colorburst at all, and hence will just look at the frame format and assume the signal is NTSC.

With the cable that supplies composite video, it will see the PAL colorburst on the input and this may be fooling the box into thinking it's PAL 60 when it isn't.

Note that a PAL gamecube in 60Hz mode does actually output PAL-60, so you are seeing what you would expect in that case.

Edit:
OK, I just did some experiments, and I'm now confused. I had a look through my boxes of video stuff and found a converter that looks just like yours - although it's possible the internals are different.

I can confirm that (at least this model) does support RGB input - lifting one of the RGB input pins when it's running will result in the expected color cast on the output video. It also correctly displayed PAL and NTSC when fed with signals of the relevant type.
However, contrary to my expectations (and the theory I advanced above) it did correctly detect the input format as being NTSC4.43 when fed from a non-video modded SCPH-9002 running NTSC software:

So now, I'm really confused - two possibilities are that the converter you have is not the same as mine despite the box looking the same and that your SCPH-102 has been modified to output PAL60 in NTSC mode (it's a simple mod, just lift a pin and solder a single wire).
Can you open up your SCART converter and compare the PCB with the one in my photo?

 

About the console:
---------------------------

My PlayStation 1 model SCPH-102 have the last motherboard revision PM41(2).
About the modification, I don't see it on the board.
Here are some pictures of the board:
https://imgur.com/XPWv9Sx
https://imgur.com/vSJNCpo


About the adapter:
---------------------------

I can confirm that my PCB layout is a little different than yours but the components are almost identical.

Unfortunately I can't remove the sink (it is glued to the chip) to see what is the name of the video processor in the middle of the board...

Here are some pictures of the board:
https://imgur.com/TizlL47
https://imgur.com/EXlqha3

But my question remains: how can I test this adapter to see if it really support RGB?
If a way does exist then this will solve the mystery.

Thanks!

 

OK, I'm pretty sure the converter is the same basic design as mine - if you trace out the wires between the key components like the SPI flash and the HDMI encoder back to the video processor IC they seem to be going to the same pins, which strongly suggests that it's based on the same MSTAR chip - although it's possible that the firmware is different.

And the PAL60 indication is correct - your console has been modified to ground pin13 of the video DAC so it's always in PAL mode even when the console is running 60Hz software. That's what the solder blob on the back of the board I've marked with a red circle is doing. It's not a very good approach, to be honest - when you run NTSC software the pin will try to pull high, but will be prevented by the short, so it will source excessive current. It's better to lift the pin and ground the trace - but it does make sense of the indications you are getting.

The easiest way to check if the converter is using the RGB inputs is to remove the backshell from the SCART connector and short one of pins 7, 11 or 15 to ground using a jumper wire while displaying an RGB signal. So if you short pin 7 (blue) then the image should turn yellow, pin 11 (green) should make it turn magenta and pin 15 (red) should make it turn cyan.

If the displayed colors don't change, then it's not using the RGB signals.

 

- thank you @TriMesh for this info; I've bought this console from a seller and I saw that was modded with OneChip but didn't know about that mod.

I've removed the blob from the PlayStation 1 PCB and now the adapter display NTSC 4.43 with the official cable and NTSC with the RGC one.

I've shorted the pins for Red, Green, Blue lines and the results are Cyan for Red, Magenta for Green and Yellow for Blue so the adapter accepts RGB signals.

Final tests:

- Playing on my modded GameCube PAL using the adapter with the official RGB cable through my CRT TV, the image is in color but without interference on the LCD TV; it shows PAL-60 signal;
- Playing on my modded PlayStation 1 PAL using the adapter with the RGC cable (sync on luma) through my CRT TV, the image is in black and white but without interference on the LCD TV; it shows NTSC signal;
- Playing on my modded PlayStation 1 PAL using the adapter with the official RGB cable through my CRT TV, the image is in color but with interference on the LCD TV; it shows NTSC 4.43 signal;
- Playing on my modded PlayStation 2 PAL using the adapter with the RGC cable (sync on luma) through my CRT TV, the image is in black and white but without interference on the LCD TV; it shows NTSC signal;
- Playing on my modded PlayStation 2 PAL using the adapter with the official RGB cable through my CRT TV, the image is in color but without interference on the LCD TV; it shows NTSC signal.

The image is perfect on all the above cases because all the consoles are connected to the input SCART 1 on my CRT TV.
From input SCART 2 of my CRT TV goes a RGB cable (double shielded) to the input SCART of the adapter and from output HDMI of the adapter goes a HDMI cable to the input HDMI of the LCD TV.

Remember that my CRT have 2 input SCARTs, and the adapter have 1 input SCART and 1 output HDMI.




So... I conclude that something is happening between my PlayStation 1 console and the official RGB cable... because I don't understand how the GameCube is working and the PlayStation 2 too...

Maybe some capacitors inside the official cable are bad???

I was reading some time ago that the PlayStation 2 already have the capacitors needed for R G B lines and maybe that's why it doesn't have interference like the PlayStation 1???
But then why when using the RGC one (sync on luma) it doesn't show interference???

I think that when the RGC cable is used, maybe my CRT TV on input SCART 2 doesn't accept sync on luma and that's why is displaying the image in black and white because if I connect the console directly to the adapter and the LCD TV (not through my CRT TV) the image is in color not black and white.

 

OK, the basic issue here is that with the converter wired up through the TV the only signal that's getting to it is composite video.

It doesn't matter if the cable you have connected to SCART1 is RGB wired, since neither the RGB signals themselves nor the RGB switching signal are being passed though to SCART2 - only composite is.

You can verify this yourself - do the same test with the RGB signals on the cable that goes from SCART2 to the converter and you will see there is no effect - because in this configuration the converter is not using RGB at all, only composite.

 

A firmware update for your LCD TV ?
Via network or USB ?
Check the EXACT model number on the back !

 

This I understand; what I don't understand is why this interference show when I'm not connecting throught the CRT only through LCD HDMI.

Connecting the console with the official RGB cable directly to the CRT or LCD (no adapter using) no interference is showing and the image is clear and good.

Connecting the console through the adapter with the LCD not the CRT the image show interference like the signal is composite not RGB...

Connecting the same cable with the PlayStation 2 (in same combination) the image is clear and good...

Conneting the official RGB cable with the GameCube (in same combination) the image is clear and good...

It's strange that the interference start to show when I'm using the official RGB cable in combination with the adapter and the LCD or with the adapter, the CRT and the LCD.

This problem drives me crazy

What do you think @TriMesh?

Thanks!

 

It's really hard to tell - if you are getting a noisy image with the official SCART cable connected to the HDMI converter then the most likely reason is that for some reason the converter isn't switching over to RGB.

If you repeat the test with shorting down the RGB input signals with just the official cable and the converter box you can see if this is the problem. Unfortunately, although I have several PlayStation RGB SCART cables I don't have the official one, so I can't test this myself.

I have a vague memory that some TVs wouldn't auto-switch to RGB using the official cable and had to be manually switched over, so maybe it's using a high value resistor in the switching line and the converter isn't getting enough voltage?

 

@TriMesh you are a gold mine.

I think that is the problem.

I will try to unsolder the status/aspect ratio pin to see the effect.

Here is a high quality image to see what components have the official RGB cable (posted by Bad_Ad84): https://assemblergames.com/attachments/20181216_160351-jpg.34421/

 

BIG UPDATE:
-------------------

I've resolve the problem.

You were right @TriMesh; the voltage for pin 16 was too high or wrong for the adapter.

Initially, I was using your test for the RGC cable and I was under the impression that I've tested the official one too.

After reading through your comments I've test the official one and nothing happened when I've bridge the R G B lines with the ground (it was in Composite mode not RGB mode).

I've rerouted the 5V wire to pin 16 on SCART (Blanking Signal) directly and I've bridge the R G B lines with the ground and the result was the correct one.


It's interesting that with this adapter if you use it on a PlayStation 1 PAL modded with ONEChip with an RGB cable supporting sync on composite video the signal will be interpreted as NTSC 4.43 and with an RGB cable supporting sync on luma the signal will be interpreted as NTSC.
Don't know why the adapter differentiate the signal because of the sync.

Anyway, BIG THANKS @TriMesh

So, case closed!!!

P.S. I was sure that I was reading some posts some time ago about the official RGB cable for PlayStation 2 having sync problems with the XRGB-mini Framemeister.
You can see from the pictures on that thread that the components inside the RGB cables are identical for PlayStation 1 and 2.
That person just unsoldered the purple wire which is the 5V pin; I was reading that XRGB-mini Framemeister doesn't need pin 16 to select from Composite / RGB mode.
Here are the discussions:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=6450
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=8400