the fact that this topic has been discussed on different forums, legal offices , blogs ,ect is enough to say that this topic is a filibuster and furthermore every time i read this topic for update it has given me incredible headaches . just saying this has been discussed into the ground. give it up no one can stop piracy its inevitable . the links will become invalid and then they will be re-uploaded . just saying whats true . i personally download games but the games i download are dreamcast and before ,i guess i am man enough to admit this .
Then don't read it then. I find the different interpretations people have of piracy and what they consider crossing the line interesting.
I don't think this thread should remain in the Gaming discussion section as it clearly has derailed into something more then a debate about the difference in stealing a car from a dealership and then returning it after using it for a week or so or downloading a digital copy of a game for free. Theft and piracy debates are very political and as we all know it, politics is based around opinion. The more answers you answer on this debate the more questions it raises and the more controversial it gets. Why did you commit the crime? What was your intension? What was going through your head when committing the crime? How big the damages are? And so on. And for each of those points you get another debate between how severe the punishment should be. It looks like an easy question to answer at first glance; ''Well obviously stealing of a car is way worse as it is intellectual property, then downloading a game from the Internet.'' But in all honesty the more you debate the harder it gets to answer this question and get your point across to the other person. I hope I got my point across.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. Chicken, chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken - chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. -Chicken
SCUM. Armake21 nailed this with his rant. Postal 2 is one I remember notably. The DRM is total shit (Starforce IIRC) and won't work with Vista or 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt4BpnfAN-o Long video but worth the watch.
I think the whole debate is completely stifled whenever the concept of "copyright infringement" or "theft" are looked at as completely black/white areas. Yes, I'm just retreading things that have been said a million times and yes, I'm just wasting my time by even posting this but... When it comes to theft in a completely legal term, not only are there different degrees of theft, but even our crazy legal system in the USA will recognize that point. When I was a teenager I shoplifted several CD's from department stores. Am I proud of it? Nope. It was wrong and it's something that I'd never do now, just like a lot of other stupid teenage mistakes. However, it was theft, just like the local grocery store manager that embezzled about 100k from the company. It was theft just like the drug addict that held a pistol to my head as I emptied out the register when I worked as a video store manager. It was theft, just like the subhumans that broke into my shed and stole my chainsaw and weedeater, and theft just like the punks I caught breaking into my truck. However, those are all crimes of theft (which could all be labeled something legally different like burglary, armed robbery, shoplifting, etc, all which are dealt within the legal system differently. About 20 years ago I recorded a CD without the support from a label. I 100% paid for everything involved; studio time, session musicians, and CD pressing and production. I think I had about 500 copies pressed. I no longer have any available and quite frankly would be embarrassed if I was actually identified with having anything to do with the work. How would I feel if I came across it being torrented? I'm not losing out on potential sales since I have absolutely zero interest in repressing this CD. In fact, other than going through a digital download service and jumping through those hoops that would be the only way I could possibly profit from my work. Apathy and time constraints see that I would never do that. So while yes, that's copyright infringement, thats also stemmed from a potential revenue stream that through lack of interest I have no intentions of pursuing. In essence, nobody that downloads my music is knocking me out of potential sales since I have no intent on ever distributing my music again. If I did, and offered this shit through a legal download service, I feel at that point I'd have a right to bitch. Otherwise I should STFU. Counterfeit DS games and GBA games that are still economically viable and can actually be passed off as legit items are a real issue. Flash carts that work with present day hardware, I can see them as honestly depriving game companies from actual potential sales. Bootleg HK silvers, slick enough to be passed off as the real thing to unsuspecting buyers, that's an issue. Hell, driving over the speed limit is a law that I break every day. I break the law. There's no sugar coating it. Does that somehow make me the same as a child murderer since the issue is black/white? Sodomy is also illegal here, so should I be given the chair for what my wife and I did consentingly last night? A lot of electronic piracy stems from getting something for free. I would say a very large portion of it stems from companies not offering their products in a way that the consumers want to use them. Paid, commercial music/movies/game downloading services show that people will actually buy stuff legally when there is a perfectly easy "illegal" alternative. Same situation as I mentioned about my music; if I see a potiential market but am just too lazy or apathetic or my distribution method is archaic, while these people are committing a crime, I don't have the right to label them as denying me profits whenever I don't offer the product they want in a form they desire. I'm causing the problem just as much as they are. Top Fighter 2000 infringes on copyrights. If Jordan and Ali's law firms would just see the profit potentials in putting them into a shitty MUGEN-esque fighter they could be rolling in the dough instead of an unknown development group in Taiwan. I don't think you'll find anyone admitting that what they did isn't against the law. But when you say something is somehow morally wrong because it is legally wrong, then you can be prepared for both educated and crass/blunt objections.
Bootleg carts can also potentially damage hardware, at least in the case of poorly made DS carts. I've heard a few reports (anecdotal admittedly) that flash carts have occasionally blown fuses in DSes, though I cannot say if any have ever rendered a DS completely inoperable. http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 ^ Nice, long, detailed write up on how bootleg MicroSD cards can cause a lot of problems for a manufacturer. Obviously MicroSD cards are a bit different from DS carts and most of this discussion has centered around the act of infringing upon copyright through the intangible means of downloading data but I do feel bootlegging in the physical means applies.
That's the main point which most people against "piracy" don't get. Well said :clap: I heard recently about how Warp Records in London(a label with some groups I like) just lost their whole stock due to morons in the riots burning it all. From the label themselves, they said there were some things that they have no copies of in any form anymore and are lost. It's hearing stuff like this that I'm damn proud of all the "evil piracy" that goes on with some stuff that I might happen to selfishly want, as per HCK's criteria. But damnit, we're the only ones that seem to realize digital distribution of something is the only way to preserve it, not just keeping a single copy locket up somewhere. Heck, I remember reading about how when they were finally releasing Star Wars for home use, the only original master print of it was deteriorated and had to be digitally redone to bring it back. How's that for caring about your own damn legacy? It's like the people who make these things only keep a copy of their old work literally just to have it and that's it, they don't care about its preservation. I don't know if OP's main stance related directly to unreleased stuff(though the sarcasm about piracy=preservation certainly says so), but I think it's an important thing to point out. Some of us "piraters" have tons more brains than the people who even make this stuff it seems like sometimes.
I for one, like HCK's stuff that I've seen on his website. So when there's a torrent, I'll get it immediately /it's joke, it's a joke, don't kill me, I joke.
That better be homemade piss porn that you're sharing with the world and not piss porn that's being preserved for the benefit of society. And currently my company has a branch that produces Gravure video. We're the only company in Japan that does worldwide releases, so they actually are distributed through Asia, the Americas, and Europe on DVD and Blu-ray disk. And this was never started as a response to me learning someone was torrenting our stuff. I was the result of me thinking about people downloading ROMs of games to try before they buy. My point of view is that sampling is nice, it's not a right the consumer has.
Or piss porn that you made.... OH I saw your little website.... and my Director of HR says he knows you... Kenji large dude heavily tatoo'd missing a Finger
You're right, the consumer doesn't have a God given right to sample before he makes a purchase decision but surely in this climate of economic depression it's better for everyone involved if he does. If John or Jane Doe buys a game 'blind' and it turns out to be crap they could think 'shit to it, I'm not going to risk buying anything at full price again, I'll either wait 'til I can pick it up cheap second hand or until it's reduced to $20 new'. That's bad for the designer and manufacturer, the retailer and ultimately the consumer. If they try before they buy by either downloading a ROM or an ISO and they like the game and pay full price it's a win-win situation. If they sample it and think it's only ok and waits for the price to come down and then purchase it it's still a win-win because they've still bought the product. Yes, it's been bought at a reduced price but at the risk of repeating myself they've still bought it and the money that's left over from what they would have paid had they coughed up the full initial asking price is still in his or her wallet ready for the next title to come along. That's why movies have trailers, why musical artists release singles, why tv has wall to wall advertising and why Wal*Mart has you picking up free taster samples of all kinds of food and drink imaginable on an almost daily basis. You wouldn't go to a movie theatre to see a film you'd never heard of just on a whim or because of a poster, nor would you buy an album without at least hearing a couple of tracks because of the genre and a few images on the front and back of the case or buy a certain food or beverage without tasting it, but to a certain degree that's exactly what's expected of gamers. Not every game has a demo so how do you know it's what you want? Just because it's in the style or genre that you like doesn't automatically mean you'll enjoy it and magazine or internet reviews are entirely subjective because they're someone else's opinion, not yours. As the old saying goes, ''the proof of the pudding is in the eating''. For example, I love 2D fighting games but I hate the Blazblue games with a passion. For me they are everything that's wrong with gaming, all style over substance with an inflated emphasis on ridiculous combination attacks. But that's just my opinion, someone else out there could feel the same way about any number of the SNK games that I love to play. Who's wrong? Not me, not you, it's all down to individual tastes and preferences and that's what samples give you, a quick taster. As long as there's either a purchase or a deletion at the end of the 'trial' I still can't fathom out what problem you have with people demoing any kind of stuff in whatever form they choose, be it gaming, music, literature or movies. That is unless your own product is lacking that certain something that turns a casual downloader into a committed purchaser, but only you can answer that.
Just found this and was reminded of this thread lol Remember Jesus' miracle of multiplication, in which he had a handful of bread and fish and made thousands of copies of them and then distributed for free to thousands of people?Replace "bread and fish" with "games/music/movies" and there you go. Piracy.Jesus was killing the bread and fish industry.
