Super Mario Bros. 2 Prototype

Take a look here:
http://themushroomkingdom.net/smb2_proto.shtml

 

I remember hearing about it a month or so ago, although this is the first time I have seen pictures. Eh, wonder how long it will be before someone makes a fake prototype hack for it.

 

I've always hated Mario 2, it never felt like one and thats because it wasn't. Gotta love Japan's ideology that Americans couldn't handle their difficult games. Super Mario USA indeed.

 

I d like some Super Mario FX material

 

I really love SMB2 !

 

SM2 the japan version was to hard to enjoy. That game was a chore.

 

I don't know why people are so hard on SMB2 (USA). The game was designed by Shigeru Miyamoto, the music was by Koji Kondo, and it departed from the original game (something I think a proper sequel should do) while retaining platforming magic. I was glad we got this instead of Faster, Harder M*rio.

(sorry, an old-timer's joke...)

 

for me it's not a prototype, just a Sample.

 

SMB2 is lame compared to SMB2 USA, which is the true sequel SMB deserved imo.

 

x

 

SMB2 USA is not a Mario game, any more than "Sonic 4" on the SNES is a Sonic game. They're both sprite hacks. SMB 2 USA may be a better/more interesting game than SMB2 Japan, but it isn't canon, it's not a true Mario game.

The Famicom Disk System version was called "Doki Doki Panic", incidentally.

 

x

 

I know it's officially licensed rolleyes, but that doesn't change the inarguable fact that the game was not created as a Mario title. That many parts of it re-appeared in later Mario games doesn't change anything. Your Mean Bean Machine parallel is apt, since it's essentially the same thing. When you take one game and graft onto it the characters from a different series, it does not somehow become part of the latter.

Sprite hacking can make a title more interesting, certainly, but again, whether or not SMB 2 USA is a better or more interesting game than SMB 2 Japan is irrelevant to the issue of canon; you obviously understand the concept so I'm surprised you're arguing this. It was not created as a Mario title, ergo it is not a Mario title. QED. I'm beginning to sound ludicrously pedantic, so I'll probably leave the argument here.

Incidentally, I've just noticed a Play-Asia coupon on my desk. Anyone who wants to use it is welcome to: MS-LLJ-QHR, minimum spend $50.

 

I think it is a prototype/beta more than a sample one.

 

There are so many games out there that started out as something different than what they ended up as, with the only difference here being that this game had a release before its redesign. (In this case a redesign done both because of what I guess was a possible licensing issue with Fuji TV and the US/EU's need for a SMB2)

So if re-using assets and engine from another title/design prevents a game from being "canon", when done by official license holder, prevents a game from holding the title of "canon", then there are so many titles out there that does not qualify as canon.

The definition of term "canon", as far as I know, is basicly the story/rules/events/whatever from something that're labeled as "correct" and thus get carried over, if relevant, to any other related stories or evt. not changed during revisions of the original story.

 

I think you're being a little unfair, creating intent out of thin air. When Super Mario USA came out on the Famicom, it became a Mario game on both sides of the Pacific. The fact that Nintendo didn't disown the title later, but rather cross-pollinated SMB USA and the rest of the Mario series in later titles goes to show this.

And! Did you know that Mario and Peach are shown next to Imajin and Leena (two of Doki Doki Panic's characters) both in the instruction manual and in promotions for DDP? The characters may be from Fuji TV, but Doki Doki Panic was associated with Mario from the start.

 

No, I didn't. That's interesting, and does go some way to backing up what's being said.

Yeah, that's a fact of game development as much as anything else. Another game that springs to mind is Starfox Adventures, a game that was designed entirely from new ip and only had the "Starfox" label (and a clumsy flying minigame) added at the last minute. I do not consider that to be a genuine part of the Starfox series (although I did enjoy playing it); presumably you do. Agree to disagree, etc.

Hmm, I'd say it shows they were covering their asses.

 

Pikmin started out as a mario title too

Wii-sports was at one point Mario-based too, I saw the video

 

hence can these then not be considered Mario games if following Alchy's line of thinking?

 

hence, having a franchise is just for the public face of a game. Slap mario on something and it sells like hot-cakes.

*Short answer*

Mario was not a mere 'guest' of Doki Doki Panic (whereas he was a mere guest in SSX3, as much as Solid Snake is a mere guest in the upcoming Brawl title). The game was wholly mario-lized to be promoted as part of the official series. Elements found in that game have been re-used in the official mario universe.

Whether the game was out of line from a purist's view, has nothing to do with the title's classification as canon. the game is canon, because Nintendo sets the canons for its own games, and in this case it decided to give it the official treatment, and it has been treated as canon ever since - evident by the appearance of Birdo, Shy-guys and other characters in subsequent mario games.

*end of short answer*


It all really depends on what market you're addressing and what you want to achieve.

Mario has two sides to it.

A) Mario as in what it represents for platforming

and

B) Mario, as the franchise and all the luggage that it carries, the characters, environments etc, that appeal to a certain class of people.

For nintendo, starting something as a Mario project, means that they used key elements of the know-how and technologies powering the Mario line of games. So, having pikmin stem from mario does not make it a mario game because it falls under category A, and not B.

Nevertheless, using mario in a game, makes it a mario game,for the purposes of marketing it wholy or partialy (like SSX3, or the other EA games including mario). But classification of whether this game is a mario title or not follows from whether the game is a Pillar title or a mere Satelite.

No one would say that SSX is a Mario game just because it features him. And no one would expect SSX players to appear in a Mario universe. The appearance of Mario in this game is something of a guest appearance, making the game a Third party Satelite of the Mario universe.

On the other hand, the Pintas in Mario Sunshine , although new and relatively out-of-place, are to be considered part of the mario universe. Why? Well because the company made them appear in what I like to call, a "Pillar" mario title (as opposed to a Satelite title, like Mario party etc).

Following this reasoning, Super Mario Bros USA/2 is a Mario title, because it belongs to the Pillar titles of Mario, ie Platform games, and was even given the name 2 as in continuation of 1 and preceding 3.

Again, the fact that it was a different game does not matter. As forementioned, Pikmin started out as a different game. A mario game. No one can argue that it IS a mario game just because it started-out as one.

In the same way, by analogy, no one can say that Super Mario Bros 2 USA is not a mario game but a Doki Doki Panic title, solely because it was based on that title (the volume of the game elements used are immaterial in assessing the category).

Finally, even Wii sports *attempted* using mario instead of Miis in order to make it more appealing. This is an internal decision for nintendo, as was choosing to make pikmin a different game, and as was choosing to convert Doki Doki Panic into Mario USA.

For all OFFICIAL purposes, the numbering of the game (SMB2) , the use of the title (Super Mario Bros) and the re-use of characters and elements appearing in it in later titles, Super Mario Bros 2/USA is canon.

How it started out is none of our business after-all,

In the same way, Star Fox Adventure's Crystal has become canon because the game SFAdventures is considered to be in the official Pillar of the games, and not a mere Satelite.

Whether a game is better suited under a franchise is a matter of debate on the merits of each game, but NOT on the classification.