Taiwan ≠ Japan, but ...

I know Japan is not Taiwan and that this is the "Living and Collecting in Japan"-Thread, but when it comes to retro-gaming its pretty much the same, as they just sold the same games/systems/packages without any translation of menues or manuals. I think it is a bit different now with the new consoles (PS3,360). I lived in Japan as a student and now I moved to Taipei for work and to my impression it's seems that they pretty much got the same stuff, Taipei even got its own little version (ok it is a much smaller version) of Akihabara.

But to finally get to my question: There is one thing that is annoyingly not the same as in Japan. It's the connections on the TVs. For some damn reason RGB never really made it to Taiwan. I got RGB-cables for all my old consoles and enjoyed the quality on my CRT set in Europe, but here it's seems I am stuck to composite, s-video or component. I asked one of my colleagues and he said that TV's with RGB input might have been sold in Taiwan as well, but if so, the number must be very little. But he is not sure. As I move to a new apartment now and would like to get a nice big CRT-TV, the best I could find so far was a "Kolin CT-34FV2" which got a "licensed by Mitsubishi" on the front. It has a nice (i guess 34") flat-screen and composite, s-video and component connections, BUT no RGB...
Is there anybody, who maybe lives or lived in Taiwan, who can tell me if there are any RGB-CRT-TVs here? Or can someone in Japan tell me if such RGB-TVs are still available there and if it is possible to ship them to TW? Or is there maybe someone from the US who had such problems and found a solution?

There is also another thing I am a bit worried about. It seems that Taiwan, like the US, got 110V, while they got 100V in Japan. People at some retro-shop in Taipei told me that this is not a problem and that I don't have to worry about it, but do you think my old Japanese consoles could suffer when I use them without a converter? It seems that in the past they just sold the same systems, but I am not sure if they had some special adapters and if I can truly trust the infos from the shop keeper. I don't want the systems get broken after some time.

Oh and and something else. For my PS2 I got a RGB and Component-cable which one does look better on a CRT-TV?

 

I can't speak to the lack of RGB on Taiwanese TVs. However, I can tell you I run Japanese consoles on 110VAC here in the US (both a Twin Famicom and a Japanese SMS) without any issues.

 

Depends on what game you are playing. If it's a game originally in low-res such as some arcade-ports or retro compilations (puzzle, fighting games & shoot'em ups) it definitely looks sharper through RGB. If you play Silent Hill 3, Gran Turismo 4 or God of War, definitely go for component if your TV supports it. For those games I'd suggest playing them on an LCD though (via component).

 

Thank you for the answers so far.

@ave: Just to make sure that I got you right. So you mean 2D-games should be played via RGB no matter if played on CRT-TV or LCD-TV? While 3D-based games should be played via RGB on a CRT-TV and Component on a LCD?

Is this the same case with the Wii (I don't got one yet, but I thought about getting one as there are a few games I am interested in and I would like to to buy some gamecube games for it, that I haven't played yet)?

 

The main benefit of component is easier support for 480p or above. Any console or game who doesn't provide 480p shouldn't have much difference between RGB or component, under like circumstances.

Wii is annoying because (similar to PS2) it may output 240p, 480i, or 480p. Many TVs don't accept all three with a component cable.

 

... I have some difficulties to understand that. Could you please explain it a bit more?
Do I get you right?
1. So some PS2 and Wii games will be displayed in 240p and 480i with an RGB-Cable. Actually this should be the same with a component-cable but many TVs have problems to accept the different resolution via component and will consider it as 480i, therefore the picture is not as correct as it would be in 240p?
2. But if the TV has no problems in accepting the different resolutions via component-cable, a component-cable is equal to a RGB-cable. (How can I tell if the TV is capable of handling the different resolutions via component?)
3. The only situation in which a component-cable is better than a RGB-cable is when a game uses 480p resolution as only a component cable can do that? (So it is actually not about 2D or 3D games or LCD or CRT? If the CRT for example got component but no 480p mode it makes no difference if I use RGB or Component? They are equal in quality?)

 

1. So some PS2 and Wii games will be displayed in 240p and 480i with an RGB-Cable. Actually this should be the same with a component-cable but many TVs have problems to accept the different resolution via component and will consider it as 480i, therefore the picture is not as correct as it would be in 240p?

It varies by TV model, some will have incorrect picture. The worst sets refuse to even attempt 240p component. Just show a generic "signal not found" type error message.

2. But if the TV has no problems in accepting the different resolutions via component-cable, a component-cable is equal to a RGB-cable. (How can I tell if the TV is capable of handling the different resolutions via component?)

Basically. Playing a PS1 game on PS2 will test 240p fastest.

3. The only situation in which a component-cable is better than a RGB-cable is when a game uses 480p resolution as only a component cable can do that? (So it is actually not about 2D or 3D games or LCD or CRT? If the CRT for example got component but no 480p mode it makes no difference if I use RGB or Component? They are equal in quality?)[/QUOTE]

As far as I'm aware. I don't own a real RGB monitor to compare myself.

 

Japan never really had RGB either. Very few TVs sold here in the past used RGB. There were some but not many. So I guess you'll find the situation in Taipei the same if not worse.

 

Oh, that is really a surprise. I always thought RGB was as common in Japan as it was in Europe. So they just used the inferior Composite and S-Video only? Do you know by any chance if it is possible to import one of those few RGB TV sets? Are there any online shops who got some. Do you even know a TV model that you could recommend that got an RGB SCART connection?

 

Japan RGB had the additional issue of different pinout from Europe. Same looking cable that could damage something, plugged into a wrong TV.

 

Yeah, most people use composite which is annoying. Personally I used S-Video at first but now I use RGB through a XRGB box. Hitachi, Toshiba and Panasonic had TVs in the late 80's and early 90's with 21pin RGB on them like European TVs but the RGB was limited to only a few models (I don't know which) plus as Lum said, it was a different pin layout although that was easy to fix by moving a few pins in the actual 21pin RGB cable.

No modern Japanese TV has RGB anymore (21 pin RGB) in fact, no Japanese TV in the last 10 or more years has. Sony did have a type of RGB but being stupid Sony they made it with their own "superior" style port which meant you'd need to buy or build a converter to use console RGB cables on it. I don't think they use RGB at all now.

 

That sounds very complicated. So even if I find a CRT-TV with an RGB connections I have to use the right RGB cables for my consoles. Could you PLEASE give me some advice. Here are all the information you might require:

- I would like to buy a Japanese/Taiwanese CRT-TV with RGB as I would like to avoid the hassle and costs involved with a XRGB.
- My Super Famicom, Mega Drive 1, Mega CD 2, and Playstation 2 are Japanese.
- My Saturn and Dereamcast are PAL systems modified to play Japanese games in 60Hz.
- Back in Europe I used an old PAL Panasonic CRT-TV, that supported 50/60Hz and had two connections. One had “SCART” and the other one “RGB” written above them.
- With the “RGB”-connection I was able to play Japanese games without any problems.
- All my cables have 21 pins. I am not sure about the Saturn and Dreamcast, as I am still waiting for them.
- I bought all the RGB cables on ebay. Cannot remember if they were Japanese sellers.

So are all those RGB cables only suitable for European TVs? Would only Japanese TVs suffer under the wrong cables? What can actually happen if I use the wrong cable on a Japanese TV?

Is there something like a simple adapter RGB/Scart to Component that I could use to plug it to the CRT-TV I found here in Taipei that got component connections? (I think it has no high res function and only uses 480i.) Or would the picture quality suffer that much that it would make more sense to use composite or S-Video in this case? I just would like to get the best most native quality I can get for all my consoles.

 

You'd want active encoding from RGB into component. An adapter will send RGB video to a TV input expecting component.

Unlike XRGB... The simple converter boxes do not adjust resolution, hz, aspect ratio, overscan, or any of that stuff. They just output what the console sends. For example no helping 50hz consoles work on a 60hz only TV.

 

OK, for the Super Famicom and Saturn you can buy official Japanese 21 pin RGB cables in Japan. These will work on any Japanese TV with a 21 pin RGB port. They will also work on a PAL console IF you are using that PAL console on a Japanese TV. however, if the Japanese TV can't handle a 50Htz signal the picture will be in black and white or worse still, rolling. I know Toshiba's old CRT's sold in the UK were 50/60.hertz compatible so I guess a Japanese one would be too.

For your other consoles you can either buy a western 21pin RGB cable and change a few pins around (guides are on the net if you Google them) or just use s-Video. Dreamcast through s-video still looks very nice. Mega Drive looks a bit poor though.

take a look at these links
Japanese 21 pin RGB layout http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/rgb21pinj.htm
European 21 pin RGB layout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

and if you don't want to change the pins around in a scart cable then you can also buy a Euro to Japanese 21 pin scart / RGB converter for very little money or make one. THey are easy enough to make even if you have poor soldering skills - http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/japanese-rgb-to-euro-rgb-converter/

 

There were CRTs with RGB inputs almost 2 decades ago in Japan, back before any of us who currently live in Japan were around. I've had several but these TVs are on their last legs.

I'm Taiwanese and I have never seen RGB capable TVs sold locally there (I've seen the market since the Famicom days).

 

@Yakumo Thanks for the detailed information. I guess when it comes to using RGB, the best solution would be a "Euro to Japanese 21 pin scart / RGB converter", that you mentioned. I could just plug it between the TV set and this switch that ( www.wolfsoft.de/shop/images/product_images/popup_images/12421_1.jpg ) I use for my consoles.
Is there any signal-quality-loss involved when using this 21pin-converter?

@Shou That is actually what a colleague told me as well. He said I might be lucky if I can find an imported TV set. He gave me an address, where I should take a look around, but he said it is very unlikely. I will take a look around the second-hand shops this weekend.

@ Lum If I should not be able and find any good RGB-CRT-TV in Taipei. I will get the 34-inch CRT-TV from Kolin/Mitsubishi with Composite, S-Video and Component. But when I get you right, I will still have to buy a XRGB if I want to use the RGB-cables for my consoles, though the CRT-TV has only standard resolution, right?

 

XRGB isn't right for that use. Composite, s-video, or component on an XRGB would be inputs. Not outputs.

 

No, there shouldn't be any loss at all as long as the converter uses decent parts. It's a very basic device really.

 

@ Yakumo Could you recommend me an online store where I can buy it? Are you selling it in your store? As I am not sure what kind of RGB the Taiwanese are using (Japanese or Korean/European) could you tell me if I could damage anything if I choose the wrong connection?

@ Lum So is there anything I could plug between my consoles with their RGB-cables and my CRT-TV and its available connections (composite, s-video, component)? As you said XRGB is not the way to go.

 

I have no idea what type of RGB they use in Taiwan. You'd have to check that yourself. As for the converter, well there's a guy in the UK who can make you one. His work is very good. He's the man to see if you want RGB mods on any console. He made me Japanese standard 21pin RGB cables for my Saturn and Mega Drive. Both are fantastic quality. This guy knows how important quality is since he's a gamer just like us. The guy goes by the name of mmmonkey. I linked to his store above - http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/ Just tell him what you want if he doesn't have it and he'll probably make for you.