The Original Saturn/Project Jupiter ( plus blackbelt , mars)

So, as we're hunting down the BlackBelt Dreamcast, what about the original version of the Saturn? :smt017

The story goes (as I'm sure you all know), that the sprite pushing beasty original Saturn had been completed, but after seeing the Playstation demo (T-Rex head?), Sega shat themselves, delayed the machine and strapped on another processor and 3D chip. Resulting in the mess of a Saturn we have today.

So, what did happen to the original single CPU Saturn? Surely if all R&D was completed, developers may have had early dev kits? I assume the machine would look about the same. There must be proto's laying around somewhere.......

 

Prototype Saturn Hardware

There were actually TWO different prototype Saturn hardware designs, and the one you mentioned was Sega of Japan's initial concept. Working systems definitely do exist, but they are probably so tightly locked away in Sega's R&D vaults - it must have been really upsetting when they realised that so much money had gone to waste creating a ''powerful'' console that was so quickly brushed aside by a mere PlayStation tech demo!

As for the second early Saturn, this was a US-led project that featured technology partnerships from Silicon Graphics and NVIDIA. This cartridge-based ''Jupiter'' unit was infinitely more powerful than the rival Japanese ''Saturn'' bid, yet politics within Sega always seemed to undermine the American side. I personally believe that the Japanese part of Sega remains jealous of their company's origins, and as a result most people now ignore the fact that they were originally founded by an American.

Back to the subject, it's possible that development kits for the first completed Saturn specifaction exist, though it's reported that an error in the system's documentation fails to include any reference to a second processor - it seems like the console was always going to be a complex powerhouse, only Sega originally intended to push the limitations of 2D graphics. News articles from 1993/1994 suggest that Sega wanted the final design to have limited polygonal capabilities, with only enough 3D power to handle Model 1 ports. Back then, Sega strongly felt that 3D technology was too expensive and a passing trend that would soon disappear in favour of cheaper existing 2D hardware. Well, Sony soon disproved that theory, didn't they?

P.S. In a strange turn of events, following the cancellation of SOA's Jupiter design much of the components from this console ended up being passed over by creators Silicon Graphics for Project Reality... and we all know what this later became - how's that for a fine example of a company shooting itself in the proverbial foot?

 

Gotta feel sorry for the chaps working in the R&D dept at Sega America during the 90's. Having Jupiter and Blackbelt canned. :Hangman:

Makes you wonder how things would have turned out for Sega, had Jupiter been released, followed by the Blackbelt DC. Or was Sega's rep too badly tarnished by M/S-CD and 32X (whose daft idea was the plastic mushroom 32X - SoA/SoJ?)

Oh well, if only we had the wormhole device from 'Sliders', whip into an alternate reality, walk into gamestore get a Jupiter and Blackbelt and be home for T. :smt043

 

What was the MD + 32X thing called? I thought that was the Jupiter... I need to dig up that damn magazine article.

 

MegaDrive+32X=?

I have always been led to believe that the MegaDrive/32X hybrid was codenamed Neptune, which is often the title used in conjunction with that familiar prototype casing image (I hope that you all know which picture I mean). There is also a long-lost "Mars" design, and this was found in the obscure Sega Picture Magic system. The actual hardware is definitely MegaDrive-based, but of the three component boards only two are branded with the MARS name - was the third something exclusive to this unit, and not a part of the original Mars design? By the way, does anyone know what exactly the original concept was for Mars? Could this have been yet another cancelled MegaDrive hybrid?

P.S. Were there any other planet-related Sega hardware codenames? I've never heard of anything outside of the obvious Saturn or Jupiter, Neptune and Mars prototypes, but I guess that TerraDrive might be worthy of inclusion in this list if you consider that the English translation of this system's name is Earth...

 

The combined CD/32X unit was gonna be called the Neptune, afaik.

http://consoledatabase.retrofaction.com/consoleinfo/seganeptune/

No, infact i'm wrong. Neptune was just gonna be a MD with built in 32X. So, no idea then.

But anyways, the way I see it, considering the original Saturn proto was finished, surely there's more chance of finding that than anything Jupiter/Blackbelt related? Was the original Saturn shown to any developers, running tech demos? Surely proto units must exist with demos/games?

Would love to find the specs for Jupiter. Would it have been more powerfull than PSX? If so, who would have won the 32bit battle?

 

I'd love to se a picture of the Mars if anyone knows where to find it?

The Neptune in all its glory, for those who do not care for external links.



And for those who do

http://www.uk.playright.dk/raretitel.php?id=13475

 

Re: Prototype Saturn Hardware

I always heard the Jupiter was just a cart-based Saturn. Both would be released at the same time...
I never heard about a SEGA/NVIDIA/SGI partnership on the development of the Saturn/Jupiter. What I know is a partership between SEGA and NVIDIA when SEGA was looking out for new technologies for their next game machine. All that came from this partnership were the Saturn ports to the Nvidia video card (some Nvidia cards even have a Saturn controller port).
But if someone wanna go deeper on the Saturn history, we can go back to the Gigadrive project

SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun: SEGA never announced a CD/32X, just a MD+32X (the Neptune).

Game Gear is also known as project Venus (someone can confirm this?)


PD

 

Re: MegaDrive+32X=?

I'm pretty sure its name was "Teradrive"... and tera is just an extension of the kilo, mega, giga sequence. Terra (earth) has 2 r's.

 

Not planet related, but UK wonder magazine Mean Machines reported circa 1991/2 a new Sega console dubbed "Gigadrive", which was to be 32bit & have perfect ports of titles such as Super Monaco GP, ill try and dig the article out.

 

re

I believe I've seen the 32x referred to as the Mars a few times. I'm pretty sure the "Mars" was just the development name for the 32x. I could be wrong, and there's nothing I like more than people proving me wrong. :toimonster:

 

Teradrive

My apologies - it does seem that I've mistaken the TeraDrive's name for a reference to Sega's planetary-based hardware, though it's still odd that there is that link... even if it was the result of a mis-spelling on my behalf!

Now that you mention it, Taemos, I am pretty sure as well that the 32X may have been derived from the Mars project. Yakumo once uploaded some pictures showing the "Mars" label on two of the three circuit boards in his Picture Magic device, though it's likely that if Sega DID recycle this technology from a prototype 32X design then the hardware is nothing more than a variant on the existing MegaDrive platform - the inclusion of a possibly-new third part further adds mystery to whether Sega carried out some revisionism on the Mars specification.

I knew about the proposed Dreamcast PCI card (shelved due to problems with DVD drives reading the custom GD-ROM format), but was there really a Saturn version as well? Does anyone have any further information or screenshots of this? Better yet, was it ever commercially available and if so, was it any good? You've got me all excited now - I never knew about that!!

 

yes , 32x project was named mars....and i think that an other add on for the genesis was made (only on the protoype stage ) i dont know if im wrong or not....but it could be very cool to see that.

and for jupiter , i think that a collector have it (i heard that on an other board...could be totally wrong...)



rumors , rumors....... you're everywere!

 

According to Edge's feature on the Saturn, GigaDrive was the original code name for the Saturn and it was modelled after the Model 1 arcade board. The main competition was the 3DO, being the only 32-bit machine out there. Like the Model 1 the Saturn was designed to use a NEC V60 CPU (@16MHz), and word has it that during the redesign phase then CEO Hayao Nakayama personally selected Hitachi's processors because he golfed with one of their execs.

If the info is correct, the original design would then have been close to the Model 1 and thus geared more for untextured polygons. While prototypes are said to exist I very much doubt they ever made it outside Sega's R&D departments or that any real devkits were produced.

nVidia was founded in 1993 and I find it unlikely they would have been chosen for a design started in 1992. Sega did fund R&D on nVidia's second chip (the NV2) with the Dreamcast in mind, but eventually ditched it in favour of 3dfx and PowerVR

 

Re: Prototype Saturn Hardware

Has the Sega Neptune ever been released? I would like to get my hands on it.

If Sega of Japan ever listened to Sega of America back then, then we would have a successor to the Sega Dreamcast. But you know japanese customs to not rely on westerners.

Nvidia was founded by people from Intel, 3dFX, and Matrox. I think the rumor of Sega asking for their help true but we need something to prove it, like from a magazine article.


Thank god Sega never started to work on Sega Uranus. That project would've stunk. :smt043 :smt043 :smt043

 

I also remember the so called Gigadrive which was what I belive to be the code name for Sega Of Japans Saturn project.

The Sega Mars was just the code name for the ill-fated 32X. In the picture macgic that I had there was 1 board that was very close to the original Mega Drive plus another board attached to that which did have the words MARS written on it. THis board had two CPUs which were close relations to the SVP (Sega Virtual Prosessor) used in the Mega Drive Virtua Racing. This board also had a cart slot on it which was identical to that found in a 32X. The Picture Magics carts were also the same shape as the 32X carts. Now I don't know if this is just because Sega had a load of spare 32X cart cases (could well be since it flopped) so they decided to use them for the Picture magic or if the 32X carts were actually the final design for what could have been the Sega Mars.

By the way, has anyone ever opened up a 32X to see what the boards have written on them? We all know that a Dreamcast has Katana written on the boards so maybe a 32X has Mars written on it just like the Picture Magic.

Yakumo

 

Yep yakumo. The Sega 32x I have does say Mars on it. Its actually 2 PCB boards. One has hte cartridge slot and the other has the CPU chips. I took apart my 32x and lost the cover and screws to put it back. It still work. But yeh, it says Mars on it. Also the 32x SH2 chips are smaller than the SH2 chips in the saturn. I would love to get my hands on a Sega Neptune prototype. I do love my 32x since that is what introduced me to 3D graphics..

 

There is no need to go too much far to find out the 32X is the Mars, just look inside any 32x rom and you will see: "MARS Initial & Security Program Cartridge Version Copyright SEGA ENTERPRISES,LTD. 1994."

I think the Picture Magic is the closest we can get of the Neptune. The Netptune was a Mega Drive+32X, that's what the Picture Magic is...



PD

 

There was a gamepro issue that mentioned the word Sega Jupiter. This was way back before Saturn came out though. Used to have magazines from back then but I threw them out a long time ago. I hope someone has magazines from back then.

 

...

there are some errors here...

First of all,32X is MARS.Open up a 32X and MARS is written on the pcb.

Secondly,Sega+NVIDIA did not work on a saturn concept.According to SonicXteme producer's interview Sega+Nvidia were working on a cart based system that was going to compete with Nintendo 64.You can find the interview at www.sonic-cult.org .