The Original Saturn/Project Jupiter ( plus blackbelt , mars)

Wasn't the Neptune just a mockup? :smt017

 

re

From what I remember, there are a few Neptune mockups, but only one actual prototype. I also remember something about the prototype not being finished (i.e. it only played a few games, albeit problematically).

 

here is what I remember.

the GigaDrive was Sega's oldest codename for a 32-Bit system. this goes back to 1991. the GigaDrive would be based on Sega's then-new sprite pushing monster, the System32, much like the MegaDrive/Genesis was based somewhat on the System16 board of the mid 80s. I believe the GigaDrive evolved into what we came to know in 1994 as the Saturn.

as far as I know, the Jupitor was a cartridge-only version of the Saturn with the same internal processors.

The Sega-SGI and Sega-Nvidia partnerships are two seperate things AFAIK. the SGI partnership came first. it wasnt even a partnership...but anyway, this happened in either 1993 or 1992. it was intended for the Saturn, and seems to have been SGI's idea. maybe SoA wanted to use SGI technology, but Sega (SoJ) must have rejected SGI. either way, Sega (whether it was SoJ, SoA or both) made it clear it was working on its own hardware in Japan with Hitachi. SGI said ok fine, and went shopping its technology around to Nintendo. that's how Project Reality / Ultra 64 came about, ultimately leading to the N64.

the Nvidia-Sega partnership (it was an actual partnership for awhile) happened around 1995, after the Saturn had been out. so obviously Nvidia was never under concideration for making a chip for Saturn. but Saturn's sucessor. it started with the Nvidia's NV1 chip that was the heart of the Diamond Edge 3D multimedia accelerator. it used quad polygons like the Saturn. Sega had some Saturn games ported over to the NV1 based Diamond Edge card. and also the card had ports for Saturn controllers. this didn't go very far. the card was a flop. Nvidia was working on its next chip, the NV2. Sega decided it needed to work with Nvidia for a chip for the next console, so Sega funded the NV2 project. it also used quads because Nvidia insisted on this, but Sega realized it needed something simpler, it needed triangles. but Nvidia refused to accomodate Sega. Sega did its best to work with Nvidia on the NV2 but Nvidia would not change their position on what NV2 should do. so there, the relationship basicly ended.

still in 1995, Sega went to Real3D, the division of Lockheed Martin who did the graphics portion of Sega's Model 3 board. Sega also went to NEC who would be making Videologics PowerVR accelerator. Sega now had two new partners for the graphics part of its next generation console. nothing much, if anything, seemed to come from the Sega-Real3D partnership, but the NEC/Videologic one remained. from there, I suppose work on Dural began in late 1995 or early 1996. (Sega also issued a specification for a CPU to Hitachi, thus the SH-4 was born).

now I am filling in the blanks here. but it seems that in 1996 when 3Dfx Voodoo came out, Sega took a good look at them. Sega started a third (4th if you count Nvidia) partnership with 3Dfx. this 3Dfx partnership came to the public's attention on March 13, 1997 when Next Generation Online first reported on the Sega BlackBelt console. I guess the 3Dfx-Sega contract was signed sometime in Feb or something like that. I know almost none of the details.

if you read the two articles by FiringSquad.com on Nvidia's History and the NV2, you will see basicly what I've said about Nvidia and Sega.

http://www.firingsquad.com/features/nvidiahistory/
http://www.firingsquad.com/features/nv2/

be sure to check your EGMs from 1991 to 1993 to see the few mentionings of GigaDrive... around mid 1993 you will notice that Saturn is first mentioned. and GigaDrive no more. but you have to look through every single EGM magazine from that time. sometimes GigaDrive is mentioned in Letters to the Editor, sometimes its in Gaming Gossip, Quarterman's column.

but you can also read more about the GigaDrive in the SegaBase article on Saturn: http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/ga...ikaze Console Saturn and the fall of Sega.htm


my little post here is FAR from a complete history on Sega's consumer hardware projects. while I am pretty certain that Jupitor was a cart only verision of the Saturn, it is very possible that Jupitor had different internal design than Saturn. I also know that the Mars project was basicly the 32X, but now with what has been said by others on the subject, I am a bit confused. certainly there is a great deal we do not know. some systems Sega made seem to be related to others. its all somewhat confusing. I also recently learned via the Gaming-Age forum that Sega had a Model 2 based cartridge console in the works. Model 2 is of course Sega's first 3D texture mapping arcade system, that powered Daytona USA, VF2, Sega Rally, and a few dozen other games. I would love to learn anything more on the supposed home version of Model 2. sounds like a NeoGeo type system, but 3D! wow, what i would've given for that.

Also, I should note that the Sega-Real3D partnership was reported to be for a Saturn2. even though I said nothing came of the Sega-Real3D partnership for a home console, that is not the way the media saw it. Next Generation, in their Nov 1995 magazine reported that Sega had commissioned LMC (lockheed martin corp)
to start work on Saturn2. it would be based around LMC Real3D-100 3D processor. unlike PowerVR and 3Dfx Voodoo, the Real3D chipset was a full graphics processing unit that contained its own geometry engine, therefore relieving the CPU of crunching polygons. whereas, the CPU in Dural had to feed the PowerVR2 chip geometry calculations. likewise, the CPU in BlackBelt had to feed the 3Dfx chip geometry. the Saturn2 would probably have been a stand alone console, however it was said that it could possibly be an UPGRADE for the existing Saturn. thus, the famous Saturn 3D upgrade cartridge (which was either Real3D or PowerVR based)

..... so many project Sega had going on. it's really too bad the best ones never made it out. with the exception of the Dural/Katana.


edit: I just remembered something. the Saturn was originally going to use a Motorola 68030 CPU. maybe even two of them. the Saturn advanced in development, switching over to Hitachi SH2 processor(s). somehow, the Jupitor idea was canned. maybe the Mars/32X is a slightly beefed up (or scaled down) Jupitor. I don't know. all we know is, the Mars/32X and Saturn share the same CPUs. twin Hitachi SH2s. the ones in the Saturn are clocked a little faster.

also, from what I recall reading on usenet / internet, and from EGM, the proposed Lockheed Martin Real3D based Sega console (at first called Saturn2) was known as 'Mercury' or 'Pluto'
(one was an upgrade for Saturn, the other was a new console)

 

I'm nearly 100% certain that the Sega Nomad (portable Genesis) was the one known as project Venus.

the older Master System based GameGear was called, or codenamed, MicroDrive. that is what I read in EGM. back in the early 1990s EGM was somewhat reliable.

 

Neptune

According to many sources the Neptune was canned due to many compatibility issues. There is supposedly one prototype that a US collector owns but I don't think it plays any games.

 

Re: Prototype Saturn Hardware

Yeah... Sega of America... famous for getting itself AND OTHERS out of Jams. :smt017 :smt017 :smt017

Re: Neptune:
There's a site on the net that reports that the retail price would've been somewhere around $500-$600 I believe (I'm going off of memory). I've got a Saturn Fan magazine that states the retail price would be $199.99 upon release.

I'm curious who did the design for it. SoA, whom apparenly can do no wrong, or SoJ. I assume the former since the Neptune was intended for the western market.

 

Quadratic surfaces, not four-sided polygons like the Saturn.

That's the first time I've seen that claim. Do you have any references?

PS. Long lines that make the page unreadable makes baby Jesus cry.

 

Here are all the sega codenames for consoles.

For all you interested in the code names of various sega consoles heres a list of them i took these off alt.games.video.sega-saturn. These were created by stvv, i take no credit for any of this.

Sega TeraDrive: actual name of Sega-IBM MegaDrive PC combination

Sega Jupiter: cut down version of Saturn without CD-ROM drive (canned)

Sega Neptune: Genesis 32x in one sleek console (canned)

Sega Saturn: Sega's main 32-bit system

Sega Titan: Titan ST-V, Saturn arcade variant

Sega Project Mars: 32x upgrade for Genesis

Sega Project Venus: Genesis Nomad

Sega Mercury: codename for 64-bit Sega (canned)

Sega Pluto: codename for another 64-bit Sega (canned)

Sega Eclipse: rumored name of Saturn upgrade. aka '64x' (canned)

Sega Black Belt: SoA designed 128-bit system powered by 3Dfx Voodoo
chipset

Sega Dural: SoJ designed 128-bit system powered by Videologic/NEC
PowerVR2

Sega Katana: Dural's official codename/name. aka Dreamcast

Sega Dragon: once a rumored or official name of Dural/Katana

Sega Micro-Drive: GameGear

Sega GigaDrive: direct ancestor of the Saturn/Jupitor/Mars/32x, based
on System 32 arcade

Sega Avatar: fake/phony name of console to counter the PS2

Sega Project Pheonix: rumored name of Sega future 3D technology...
home/arcade?

 

As for early saturn specifications here they are. From segaBase

1 = What most gamers today fail to realize is that the Saturn which Sega of Japan conceived and prepared for market back in 1993 was not the console that eventually made it to market in 1995. The original Saturn spec as it has been described in some accounts seems to owes most of its design to two of Sega's newest arcade boards at the time. Both Sega System32 and its immediate successor, the famous Sega Model 1 arcade board, were based around the 32-bit NEC V60 16 MHz CPU. Both designs had single CPUs and single VDPs, with fairly straightforward design architecture. System32 was Sega's ultimate 2D videogame board, whereas Model 1 had been developed exclusively for videogames with 3D polygonal graphic engines.

2 = Sega Saturn Prototype Specificiations as of March 1994
courtesy Sega of Japan official press release

Component Description

Processors - ARM-type RISC CPU running at 29.1 MHz
Graphics - 24-bit color palette (16.8 million colors)
Sound - 8 channel digital/16 channel synthesized
- 16-bit stereo
Storage - Triple-speed CD-ROM drive (450-500 kb/sec transfer rate)

NOTE: The absence of the dual CPUs in this spec appears to be a printing slip on Sega of Japan's part.

 

I remember watching a show with violet berlin? years ago on itv mentioning a sega scorpion (wasnt in the list) - was basically a mega drive with built in game which oculd be chnaged - i believe earth worm jim may have been 1 of the games but my memory isnt all too good!

 

Sega Mercury and Sega Pluto were supposedly both 64-Bit machines, with graphics by Lockheed Martin Real3D. One of these was an upgrade for Saturn. thus it was also the so called Eclipse aka '64x', thus also the Saturn 3D accelerator cartridge, (much like Dural, Katana and Dreamcast are all the same machine). The other one was a new console. obviously the Saturn upgrade was a stop gap in order for the Saturn to compete with the PSX and N64, buying time for the new console to be finished. so you ask, if both were 64-Bit and both had graphics by Lcokheed Martin, then what's the difference? well, I assume the Saturn upgrade had graphics on par with the 3DO M2 or even somewhat better. And also better than Model 2. while the new console would've had graphics more like Dreamcast, also better than Model 3. so that means going from less than 1 million polys/sec with the Saturn upgrade to something like 3 to 5 million polys with the new console.

 

Sega Planets?

I was always told to believe that there were no Sega prototype consoles named after planets other than Mars, Neptune or Jupiter! However, you guys have definitely proved this belief to be wrong (as I too remember once reading somewhere that the Nomad's codename was Venus). The early Saturn specification taken from that SegaBase article was SOJ's working prototype whcih very nearly became the final production design, though Sega then boosted its power in fear of the PlayStation and their own ill-advised judgement that a 2D powerhouse would be better than an expensive polygon-pushing system. After all, back in 1993 the concept of 3D gaming was still new, and Sega (well the Japanese half) strongly agreed that it was also a passing trend that would die out because of costs in favour of ever-increasing sprite technology. In other words, Sega was (nearly) prepared to remain trapped in the same time-warp that Capcom has spent the last decade trying to escape from!

P.S. Hasn't the whole "Project Pheonix" rumour been replaced by NAOMI3 yet? Whatever the name, this is the board that allegedly powers the long-delayed Sega Rally 3 and possibly Virtua Fighter 5 as well. I'm personally a bit worried about how a VF sequel without Yu Suzuki's involvement will turn out, but he didn't have much influence on the Fighting Vipers games and they turned out well. Let's just hope that Virtua Fighter Quest/RPG/Cyber Generation isn't how AM2 intends to bring one of their most well-loved titles into the future, and that Shenmue III really isn't the unlikely dream that it was branded in a recent EDGE interview by its very creator...

 

...

Some people here have not even a clue of what they are talking about reaching the limits of the retarted game magazine reporter level.Some time now you have been talking about prototypes and things you have only heard about once and it amazes with how much ease you talk about them...please get a grip...Recently i posted a supposed Blackbelt picture and no i see forums where people say "Hey this IS blackbelt".

Please try to establish info about things we know that exist.As for prototypes,i can assure you they are countless.Sega being a console+arcade company was constantly toying with new designs,it is natural.

As for Dragon,it is the codename for MS Win/DirectX CE SDK for Dreamcast.(ill-informed somebody?)

As for Q2000,please do not write actual names as codenames.It is stupid.

If you want an insight of what was goin on at Sega that time read Sonic Xtreme's producer interview at www.sonic-cult.org .He clearly states they were having Saturn,32X+the Sega and Nvidia one.They were developing the number one game,think he did not know what was going on?End of story.

And PLEASE,avoid SegaBase...

 

Re: ...

Personaly i was enjoying reading everyones ideas untill you came along with that post... :smt019

Chill out and plz dont be so rude when its all speculation! You could be wrong too...

 

...

It seems that people here use posts like drugs,they want to hear what they like to hear.Obviously Paulo,you did not notice the Dragon reference and the thing about the Sonic Xtreme interview.Unlike the above posts,these may shed some light on you and are from people with authority.
Better backup your claims because ONLY THEN they are enjoyable reads.

Being rude?Just stating the facts...if you like misinformation,then we have a problem.

 

Chill out Vitamen , were just speculating here and having some fun with it.
No need to get all worked up about all of this. :smt023

 

He does have a point though. I've seen rumours and speculation (that were clearly labelled as such) being repeated as facts too often.

 

While this may be true it's no reason to start acting like that

 

People shouldn't be so sensitive.

 

I just came across this pic of a neptune , i didn't know these were in private hands judging by the pic.