ULTRACIC Theory

Discussion in 'Modding and Hacking - Consoles and Electronics' started by williamgentry, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. williamgentry

    williamgentry Rising Member

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    Instead of installing thr UltraCIC chip into the cartridge of an N64 game.... Could you install it into the console by wiring it into the game card slot pins..... And mount a small toggle switch for pal/ntsc on the side of the shell?
     
  2. takeshi385

    takeshi385 Mojarra Frita Bandit

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    You could in theory, but the game compatibly would drop significantly. Later games check for the proper cic(model and region) to be installed and the console also checks for a cic that matches it's region. In addition the ultracic is generally configured to emulate the 6102 cic meaning a game that requires a different model will not run. Switching the region of the utracic will just configure it for a different region console. Think of the ultracic as a compilable cic clone that can be configured before being compiled and flashed to a micro controller as any cic model plus it's pal equivalent.
     
  3. LeHaM

    LeHaM Site Soldier

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    games also do video mode checks as well
     
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  4. williamgentry

    williamgentry Rising Member

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    I was under the impression that the ultracic was designed to emulate all variants of the cic chip
     
  5. LeHaM

    LeHaM Site Soldier

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    doesn't matter even if it does, a fair amount of N64 games do video checks.
    Say I flash a game like Knife Edge (USA Rom) to my Dr V64 Jr, and I use a PAL copy of Knife Edge as the boot cart (for the Pal 6102 cic).
    The game does boot however, a warning appears stating the game is not meant to be played on this system.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. TriState294

    TriState294 Site supporter 2016

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    If I remember correctly, you can configure the UltraCIC code to emulate different CIC chips, but you still have to pick one...it's not automatically universal in any sense. Some of the Aliexpress sellers have the main NTSC and PAL 6012 binaries burned on the same chip with a switch, but you manually have to pick the code you want to run with the switch.
     
  7. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

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    If you are trying to make the console PAL/NTSC switchable, then this won't work. All that will happen is that when the UltraCIC region matches your console then it will boot with whatever CIC type the UltraCIC is set up to use, and if the region doesn't match then the console simply won't come out of reset because the CIC region won't match the one the PIF inside the console is expecting. The PIF also contains the low-level boot code that starts the console up (different versions between PAL and NTSC).

    In theory, someone could make an "UltraPIF" that tries to communicate with both PAL and NTSC CICs, then selects the correct boot code depending on which set of responses it gets. There are a couple of problems with this idea I can see - one is technical, because the PIF has some functions (like the controller interfaces) that can't be implemented easily just in a CPU, and the other is legal - since the PIF contains a boot ROM for the system, the cloned version would also have to contain this code, which is (c) Nintendo. The only safely legal way I can see of doing this is two use two original PIFs (one PAL, one NTSC) and switch in whichever matches the inserted cart.
     
  8. borti4938

    borti4938 Robust Member

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  9. takeshi385

    takeshi385 Mojarra Frita Bandit

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  10. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

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    Cool, I looked at this just enough to convince myself that it was possible, but it's great to see that someone has actually put the time in to do it. I just hope that Nintendo don't cause any problems - if there is one game company I can think of that might plausibly go after people over 20 year old boot code, it's them...
     
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  11. eb1560

    eb1560 <B>Site Supporter 2014</B>

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    Imagination Technologies currently owns MIPS intellectual property if I’m not mistaken… I would guess that they might also not be thrilled to find out that someone is distributing a video game-based product with their proprietary MIPS boot code and profiting from it?
     
  12. TriMesh

    TriMesh Site Supporter 2013-2017

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    I doubt the processor vendor would have any protectable interest in that code - boot code is generally pretty much written from scratch for each platform and IIRC the reference version that MIPS released was issued under a "do what you like with this" license anyway, which is pretty standard for CPUs that are used in embedded systems.

    At least in the US, you could also made a good argument that since you need the boot code to start up the system it crosses the line between "expression" (which is protected by copyright) and "function" (which is not) - this was the specific basis that _Sega Vs Accolade_ was decided on, and the courts conclusion was that it was OK for Accolade to make an exact 1:1 copy of Sega's boot code, since the TMSS equipped consoles wouldn't boot without it, and hence it had to be considered functional.

    Of course, that's only a US precedent, and in any case wouldn't stop Nintendo from suing you, just give you a reasonable defense if they did.
     
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