Wouldn't It Have Been Cool If...

My ponit exactly!

 

Conversations about system x being "better" than system y are redundant, as they're entirely subjective. One thing I that can be said certainly though, is that Rez on the DC runs in a higher resolution than on the PS2.

 

The discussion of what system is more powerful is kinda vague.

For example, the PS2 is a powerful system, but it lacks two important things. RAM and Anti-Aliasing (by hardware).

So, it's impressive to see games like Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, Killzone and Gran Turismo 4.

Gran Turismo 4, by the way, does not look like a PS2 game. I would say it even surpass Xbox quality. How they manage to do that is beyond me. Fully 3D crowds, 500+ cars (with tons of tuning options), 100 tracks (at least, including reverse), photo mode, online game,....

rayer:

 

i must agree with that too but not that gameboy was crashed

 

so i am agreeing with two thing i have qouted

but i do like the PSX :smt040

 

REZ isn't the worst example of an inferior DC-PS2 port - but -Play REZ DC through VGA. Suddenly all will become clear.

I saw noticeable differences even through S-Video; VGA would make it more glaring.

Nintendomad - you are being BEYOND unreasonable with your attacks on the DC's games, library and production values. You're comparing a console that was supported per se for barely over a year and its entire library to that of a console that has been out for at least nearly FOUR. You yourself say the production values of DC games don't match *recent* PS2 games - had the DC still been alive to this day and a competitor, your argument would make sense. As it stands it's nonsensical to the hilt.

Compare games and their 'production values' etc with relevance to time period in mind. DC launch titles, for example, blew PS2s out of the water without question.

Also your accusations of SEGA treating the DC poorly are flawed severely as well. SOA and SOE barely had a year to support the machine - and in the time peirod they did, an absolutely stunning and UNIQUE library took shape. Headhunter - Shenmue II - REZ - Toy Commander - Space Channel 5 - Skies of Arcadia - Phantays Star On-Line ver. 2 and these are just a handful, and a handful of the 1st/1.5 party stuff at that- all of these are stunning games to this day and furthermore had mind-blowing production values for the day. And had the DC live don and enjoyed success, there is no doubt that its games would enjoy and meet the high standards production-values-wise and otherwise of today.

 

Right so because I said the Ps2 is more powerful,which it is,and it has a great catologue of games...it then means it is a better system?

That is not what I meant,they both have great plusses and minuses and one is not better than the other.Just becuase I say it is more powerful,it does not mean I am saying it is better and just because I say it has an awesome catologue,does not mean I am saying the dreamcast doesn't.It does!!

The ps2 has...Contra,Castlevanis,Gradius,Gran Turismo,initial D,Vf4,Shinobi,Kunoichi, Virtual on Marz,R type final,Psyvariar and many more...are you disagreeing this is not a great line up???

The DC has Ecco,VF3,Powerstone,Shenmue(my favourite game,well one of them)Shenmue 2,Jet Set Radio,Power Smash,space channel 5,samba de amigo,sonic adventure and many more,I do not hesitate in calling this awesome either and I am the guy who sticks up for the Dc everywhere I go,and most of my mates call it Dreamgash,the bastards.

So I say this in a fun way as you would down the pub...Get to fuck AW,I'm not slagging your favourite console,I love it too,so get of my case,I am saying that the Ps2 is more powerful and it shows now as the years go on,but the games libaries are equally good now and you are kidding yourself thinking that Sony's lineup is in any way inferior,it is just different.The dreamcast still started off all this originality Sony and co now emulate and Sega are the main provider of some of the ps2's greatest games.I love the Dreamcast but can admit that it has it's failings's as the years go on,it doesn't make it any better or any worse than the ps2,it is just a great console which has one of the greatest and most original games lineups ever,but to miss out on another console which has an equally good libary of games would just be shooting myself in the foot.

Oh an ID republix,I'm not being unfair on Sega,they had the capabilty to do t as they showed with Jet set,Shenmue,Headhunter etc...it was their marketing that was abysmal and if you think otherwise,you are wrong point,otherwise it would still be here.I am not saying it was Sega anyway,most of the third party stuff was dross,the Sega stuff that was out was amazing.Sega showed how to use the machine but no one else was intrested in throwing large production money behind titles because of Sega's failure to market and sell the console in numbers.If you disagree,show me the facts behind your argument and then I'll maybe see it in a different light. want real facts and then I'll show you the written facts I have,sales numbers,retailers reports etc...I even have interviews with Sega's head honchos saying they did not market the console as well as they could have.

 

Oh yeah, thee's no doubt SEGA''s amrketing went down the toilet and strayed there after the 16-bit era.


I don't agree with your claims thrashing the DC's power. Why do you insisit on conmparing ages-old DC releases to recent, Hollywood-like-budget PS2 releases? Show a little sense here. Again you are comparing games that are YEARS old now to recent PS2 games - nonsensical, as I said, to the hilt. Your claims that third-party materail was dross is also false - Soul Calibur - - DOA2 - Grandia II - RE : CV - Record of Lodoss War - Starlancer - SF3 Third Strike are just a few that trash that notion. In the time frame that the DC lived it churned otu a far higher count of quality third -party titles than the PS2 did.



Had the DC been allowed a chance and enjoyed success and remaiend a viable player to this day, we would have seen a lot more oit of the DC - just as we have seen a lot more out of the PS2 since 2000. Saying that we can see the Ps2 is moere powerful as the years go by is nonsensical - the years are only going by for the PS2, Nintendomad, not the DC. There si no doubt tthat we were only beginning to see what raw poertr developers could pull out of the DC, as Suzuki-san himself stated post-Shenmue II abd Propellor Arena that thye were only starting to get to grips with maximising the DC's potential.

If the PS2, with its lack of RAM and hardware anti-aliasing and initial difficulty to program for has had its potential pulled out by devcos as we see it today, there is no doubt that the DC would have seen the same and proven siginificant competition for the PS2.

 

DC vs PS2

Do we really need to pull out the tech specs?... The PS2 is simply a more powerful machine for better or for worse. The DC would have reached the end of it's lifespan by now anyways if it were not for its premature death.

 

Bored now! :toimonster:

 

You use R-Type Final and Virtual on Marz as examples of "great" games :smt043

Not even remotely close.

 

Yeah I'm not gonna keep this argument going,it is getting kinda boring.

I love the Dreamcast and I like the ps2 as well,that's my point.I just am pissed off with people saying the games are shit for either one that's all.

I would have loved....

The Nintendo 64DD to be a massmarket success and really pushed the boundaries of gaming.

The Sega Dreamcast to have got an HDD or a zip drive for online games.

The Sega Saturn to have had the success it deserved with it's great games line up.

Shenmue for the Saturn!!

and lastly for Donkey Konga's graphics to have looked more like Namco had made them and not some guy high on lsd with a copy of Photoshop.(shittest Nintendo game presentation I have ever seen.)

 

They may say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one.

 

This Dreamcast Vs PlayStation 2 battle is so tiresome now. Here are the hard facts like them or not.

First gen Dreamcast games blew away first gen PS2 games.

Later PS2 games made around the same time as stuff like Shenmue II were about on par or slightly better looking than DC games but not much.

The PS2 IS more powerful than the Dreamcast.

The PS2 CAN do things that a Dreamcast would have trouble with. Saying that though, the Dreamcast can do things that a PS2 can't. Put it one way, Shenmue 2 would not be possible on a PS2 due to it not having enough memory.

Dreamcast died because of Shite marketing in Europe and US. Japan wasn't as bad but still could have been better. Partly because Sega just didn't have the cash to back a marketing campaign like Sony.

All games ported from Dreamcast to PS2 are inferior to the original DC version. Simply because they are ports. Apart from Dead Or Alive 2 which is still better on the Dreamcast due to the PS2's way of handling polygons. Don't know how to explain it but DOA2 on the PS2 looks shimmery were as the DC version looks more solid.

Games such as Virtual On Mars are not as good as the original titles simply because they aren't. The Arcade version isn't as good. This has nothing to do with PlayStation 2 what so ever. If Virtua On Mars was on the Dreamcast it would still be just as crap.

That's it on the DC Vs PS2 fight. Anymore posts arguing about it like little school boys will be deleted. ASSEMbler forum is about gamers getting together and talking about games NOT talking about which system is best.

Yakumo

 

What Yakumo said.....

Oh, and I also wish the DD64 was a worldwide release and a success too. Oh well....

 

Yes, agreed. As someone stated earlier up the whole 'power' discussion is a vague one.

As for staying on topic, I guess I really only wish SEGA and Ninty hadn't grown so complacent and foolhardy post -16 bit era and basically forfeited the market. Not for the sake of crushing SONY, mind you, but for the sake of having today what could and should have been.

 

Nintendo

I agree on that point. Sony gained their foothold because they made it cheap and easy for 3rd parties to make games and Nintendo just sat their trying to keep their old ideals alive, instead of evolving with the market. Sega was also fairly nieve when originally developing the Saturn (making it 2d power-house) instead of following the market (which was looking for 3d games).

 

I think this is a little misleading. A PS2 port of Shenmue/Shenmue II woulld look like a glimmering turd. Redone from the ground up and I think it would've been fine.

 

Even if Shenmue II was programmed for the PS2 from scratch it still wouldn't look as good as the DC version because of it's poor texture data bus. It's well documented on a few sites about this weakness that the PS2 suffers from. My brother who is a games designer also agrees that it would not be possible to re-create Shenmue II on the PS2. The game could be done with not as many textures but that's not the point. The point being that it couldn't do the game the same as the Dreamcast. Just like the Dreamcast couldn't do a perfect conversion of the PS2 game Metal Gear 3 if built from scratch but it certainly could do the game by reducing the amount of lighting effects and polygons.

Yakumo