Anita Sarkeesian is not a gamer

Honestly put - I thought that a large amount of the bias that she's gone on so far has been fairly redundant and this is coming from a female gamer, whom unlike Anita - has actually grown up playing video games and after watching a couple of videos out of curiosity it was fairly obvious that she wasn't a gamer and I assume she has been going from Wikipedia articles or something due to specific pieces she has mentioned in the couple of videos I've watched.

To be completely honest, I'm not particularly phased by stuff I see in games most of the time by now, but only time to time do I get a little disgusted but even then I just generally shrug it off with a shake of my head - that's typically aimed at the Dead or Alive games, Queen's Blade and most recently Dragon's Crown character design but the thing that I keep in mind is that it's a particular type of marketing aimed at a particular audience that as a straight female, I am clearly not part of that.

However, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a fun game. For instance, the Tekken series has Anna and Nina Williams in tight outfits and then have optional ridiculous nurse outfits as well as Anna having overly sexualized movements to the point that it's a complete and utter joke but given the track record of the series after playing each game, I know not to take it seriously because it IS actually supposed to be a joke or a parody of something.

But even then, there is pandering to female audiences and this is one in Persona 3 Portable:


Then there's one that I haven't even gotten the pictures for - characters getting stuck in a dungeon in a Japanese love hotel, characters being brainwashed and ending up having said characters show up on-screen barely in a towel.

That's not even all of the things I've seen as of late in the last few games I've played.

So it honestly goes both ways but in my opinion, these are purely digital designs and they shouldn't be taken seriously unless they have been heavily based on someone or something to the point that it could be taken as libel and/or slander in the title or that they are intentionally offensive without reason but even then, there are classifications/ratings boards that also weed through stuff like this and if it were to be overly offensive then it wouldn't have been allowed through either way.

And honestly put, not every single female is say, like The Boss out of Metal Gear Solid nor a "witless wonder" in a manner of other characters but in the context of certain games Anita is honestly put, not going to have any idea whatsoever about some of the designs - such as Capcom's DEMENTO/Haunting Ground, which I'm about to get into:

Fiona was sexualized on purpose, the concept of the game was to explore themes of voyerism and the like to intentionally make the player feel uncomfortable with essentially playing a young adult female that has been thrown into a horrible situation for no reason that she has control over and it's true that many females can be kidnapped within this particular age range or assaulted in many different ways, but Anita would most likely pick up about Fiona being dressed somewhat skimpily or that her clothing is tight, or the "ridiculous" breast physics (which to me, really aren't actually that ridiculous if a female with real breasts (not implants which DO NOT MOVE) were to not wear a bra and was moving in an over-emphasized way OR simply doing something energetic that causes such movement).

Either way, I'm expecting something extremely stupid to possibly come up regarding DEMENTO/Haunting Ground - which I will happily blast her about and will upload subtitled and translated making of interviews regarding the game design overall.

And honestly put, I have to agree with Prometheus' general comments as I've just mainly seen nitpicks about general things that are common in fairytales like the damsel in distress but that has not really been used all that much as of late within games so it seems fairly redundant to pick that up.

 

Who is that and why would I care?

 

Ack, I honestly didn't intend for this to be like the other thread. I guess one can't really talk about Anita without all the baggage that comes with her.

A rational person. Thank. You.

Persona 3 (and 4) has so much pandering I don't even know where to begin.

Like that. That's a good start.

Yep, it does go both ways. Admittedly games objectify women more than men, but "gamers" like Anita act like male objectification somehow doesn't exist.

For fucks sake, Hybrid Heaven on the N64 starts the game off with the protagonist walking around his house bare assed, and even included an unnecessary shower scene for good measure. Who does that appeal to? Certainly not the straight male gamer. It was just a little something thrown in for the ladies and the gay men playing it, big whoop. But if the gender's were reversed (meaning the female protagonist is kicking alien ass with her bare fists and fighting for her boyfriend), and the game was a well known title, Anita would be all over it. "Sexist! She's only powerful because she's emulating men! Waaaaah!"

Look harder Batman! LOOK HARDER!

 

So what the fuck IS this thread about? Do you want actual discussion, or just an echo chamber calling her a poopyhead?

 

this whole project was a good example of the flaws of kickstarter, everyone climbed on the train and she was laughing all the way to the bank

 

Good question. Well, I originally made it because with new evidence emerging showing her shady and untrustworthy past, I felt that some people who were blinded to her true colors might change their opinions on the subject. or at the very least acknowledge that there's more to her than meets the eye. That's what I wanted the discussion to be about.

Then beepboop commented, then I commented, then things just sorta took off. Then Lamont shifted the subject back to what I initially didn't want the thread to become, but then I realized that it's almost impossible to talk about Anita without discussing her arguments, so I briefly threw in my two cents.

Bottom line? I fucked up. That the answer you're looking for?

EDIT: Ha, I love this little bit in my first post.

"I'd rather this thread not be locked because of an immature pissing contest..."

Then I proceed to get into one literally 7 posts into the thread. That's setting a good example...

 

Not a problem mate! ^^

I have to say, I found the pandering in Persona 3 funny but in parts of it some of it can make sense for being representations of repressed feelings and the like in terms of certain boss fights but other times... It's just completely ridiculous and seems to have been thrown in there for the sake of it being there.

I will admit, yes. I do like Theodore in P3P but that's mainly because his character is bit of a bait and switch from being "helpless" to turning to that during the game but even my partner found it amusing despite him also commenting when I showed him the scenes and his response was "So. That's how they pander to women, huh? Well, whatever floats someone's boat I suppose. I guess guys get pandered enough for so it works out for you if you're enjoying the game overall and since those are optional quests, it's not like they're throwing that one right at you."

Though he's found some of the things Anita brought up has some interesting points but his main complaint with her was that she argues for both sides but also quite clearly misunderstands a lot of points and when it comes to character design she has a bias that if a female character is designed by a male and despite she isn't overly sexualized but is still a main playable character that she is emulating a male's opinion for how a strong female should be.

Of course, that includes Bayonetta who is sexualized on purpose as some females are actually open with their sexuality and do enjoy teasing people but part of the thing is also that dressing in a style that gives confidence and essentially feeling "sexy" can also empower essentially anyone - some guys like leather jackets or nice suits, some girls enjoy wearing stiletto heels - the point that she was missing in regard to Bayonetta is that as a character, she is sexually empowered of her own will as she enjoys teasing the enemies and the male characters on purpose - this can and does actually happen in real life, I did actually attend a girl's school for a few years and did actually see this happening.

You can also find this in Suda51's games where the sexulization is on purpose and often stylized, Suda isn't being sexist as his earlier games had different playable female characters (Twilight and Moonlight Syndrome games) that had different personalities ranging from shy to outgoing in terms of a group of friends but other games from the same company also had realistic characters for their age groups that weren't glamorized, but in today's media there are honestly very few actors and actresses that are not glamorized in some way.

My only complaint would be that I would like more games to provide a female character path as I'm honestly enjoying Persona 3 Portable with the female protagonist more than the male one as the character interactions are more interesting to me but I do also understand that it takes more time, effort and most of all - money to make additional playable paths available and in a lot of development cycles that it just isn't a viable option due to the general standards that tend to take place each console generation.

Anyway, my partner's main complaint is that she essentially has been constantly unable to come to a solid conclusion backed up by decent information, has had comments disabled and with the factors that she clearly hasn't done any research and has mainly been falsely advertising that she is something, that she actually isn't to try and back up her so-called research (and the lack of it) that she has tried to give the impression that it's a topic that is open for discussion or comments when she has made it essentially impossible to discuss in regard to her videos - overall, it gives a very poor impression to me and it makes me feel sorry for the people that actually bought into what she was essentially falsely selling them as I just feel like they've more or less gotten scammed for giving her money towards this project (what did the money even go into if she already had a camera, editing software, given the lack of research and the factor that she has already repeatedly said before that she does not like video games - what was the point of doing by herself and essentially only giving a single-sided view regarding the subject without proper research or possibly reaching out to certain developers to get in touch with staff involved in the design of the game to get comments regarding it?)

I mean, Final Fantasy VII is fairly well known for having the cuter character designs being made sexier in order to try and sell the product more and that would have been a better point to start when it's already known and confirmed to have been modified for the sole purpose of marketing but again, this goes back to the target audience comment and again with pandering towards both genders.

Both my partner's and my own complaint mainly is that for gender discrimination, bias in the industry side of things - that it needs to be spoken up about so that it is dealt with in a uniform manner as it should be with other typically male dominated industries as in the near future there is a high chance of a population gender swing that is really going to start causing all sorts of issues.

But we also both feel that other countries where female gamers may be uncommon should also speak up, despite that I know that gaming is still see as "weird" in some parts of the world to put it lightly, it's not like people don't play them and it's not like there aren't female gamers so this really shouldn't be an issue (among other things that shouldn't be an issue) in this day and age in my opinion.

But again, they are just video games and as I said before - all fiction and unless something is purposely being offensive in any way, then people should really start having a go about it instead of just nitpicking over little bits of crap here and there.

Either way, it happens and I'm not particularly fussed about it - not the end of the world for me but I will say that the behavior I have heard about towards cosplayers, booth babes and the like should really stop. I am also a cosplayer and I've luckily not had any sort of issues with rude people at the few conventions I have attended so I feel like it may just be in particular areas that people don't understand certain rules when it comes to particular events or that the ones that have misbehaved may honestly have a more chauvinistic view or may even perhaps have a misogynist point of view which has just added fuel and confusion to this entire subject matter when to me, it seems fairly simple.

And sorry for shifting it back onto that topic, but my overall view regarding Anita herself is the following:

She dislikes the medium, nor does she seem to play the medium and has been falsely claiming and essentially marketing herself as the exact opposite - which to me, I would view as false advertising or even along the lines of what one would consider to be a con-artist given that money was involved for a series which has been advertised as being open for discussion with the public but has been anything but with the inability to comment, post video responses making corrections and the sheer possibility of Anita being wrong due to her lack of research or understanding in particular situations to me, seems to imply that she may possibly be confused with feminism and may simply have an issue in regard to men in general as I have yet to see her in the videos I've seen discuss pandering to women with characters designed by females and has solely been focusing on male designed characters... Simply because they were designed by a male, despite not actually being offensive?

Either way, to me it seems fairly redundant as a major part of what has been covered from what I have seen have solely been for particular target audiences but even with particular target audiences, a good game is still a good game that deserves to be played regardless.

Overall, Anita seems to lack general creditability in regards to what she did a Kickstarter for and I personally feel sorry for those that backed her as for the most part, I feel as though they have been scammed due to the lack of professionalism, proper arguments (with an actual conclusion) in regard to some of the samples I mentioned earlier and in my honest view, she shouldn't be looking at the end result medium but most likely the entertainment and/or media industry as a whole due to what I have heard about the staff issues across the entire industry as that is where it seems the majority of the issues lie, not in the end result as again - majority of the time, it's being aimed at a certain audience.

Some target audiences want realistic games, some want more cartoonish games - it's all down to the target market when considered for the sales and whether or not it may be ideal to localize within particular regions if those regions haven't responded to previous attempts to include them within their target audience.

And as a female that is essentially what Anita has marketed herself to be - a "hardcore" female gamer that grew up playing video games (I don't claim to be hardcore, but I most certainly did grow up playing video games and thanks to relatives having me play earlier consoles, arcade units before I was allowed to play on a Super Nintendo or a PlayStation, I have a respect for the medium in general as well as having a general understanding of how products are marketed towards different demographics and/or audiences) and I am honestly disgusted with what I view as deception and people falling for this trap essentially being scammed on a project that I have yet to understand as to why it had to be put onto Kickstarter if she clearly had the initial means to do it in the first place!

So yes, I do absolutely agree with you Prometheus on the topic of Anita herself and her so-called "work" as there's essentially been nothing from her end to well and truly go with her claims and what she has marketed herself as.

(To the point, I'm hearing Tim Minchin's "Angry (Feet)" in my head with the perfect kinda Aussie accent moment that I've directly linked to that kind of sums up my feelings in regard to it, fun fact: I'm actually in the crowd of that particular recording too, probably why it flashed through my head whilst I was typing though).

So to me it seems redundant having her do the videos as it does essentially boil down to that and even with an outsider opinion - there's been shockingly poor research into the fact of, so I feel that if anyone were to do something there should be four neutral parties (no chauvinist or misogynist viewpoints) - two females, two males - one of each that plays video games and is familiar with them and the other one of each should be the neutral outsider to comment on the matter instead of practically clutching at straws, little nitpicks that can also be easily negated in quite a few cases.

But hey - that's just my opinion on the matter. ^^;

 

She's been full of shit since day one. So no surprise

 

Who?

 

Not a clue about any of this but it seems to be the thread of the day, so I'm all in.
Best I've got is a pun on her first name and some very proper looking folk.
Who doesn't walk an anteater with a cane?

 

Go play some video games and stop giving a shit about how many games other people do or do not play.

 

Weak female designed by a man? Sexist, he views women as frail objects always needing a man to survive.
Strong female designed by a man? Sexist, she's only strong because she's emulating what a man perceives to be strong.
Weak male designed by a man? Doesn't exist, have no idea what you're talking about.
Strong male designed by a man? Sexist, male power fantasy, created because a female character wasn't tough enough to get the job done.

There's no winning with logic like hers.

Yep, but now there is actual evidence straight from the horse's mouth to support the rest of it. Unless her followers are that delusional, she is at best a liar with a shady past and at worst a manipulating con artist. Either way, not someone that deserves $180,000 in donations.

Ugh, I really do regret the title of the thread. It seems the central point is going over people's heads. Unless your just trying to irritate me on purpose.

I don't give a shit if the average person doesn't like games or isn't a gamer. That's not my issue. My issue is with lying scumbags taking advantage of people. The fact that this lying scumbag is essentially talking down and manipulating an industry I grew up with just makes it all the more aggravating.

 

this is actually a good point, and a good action we can all take.

lets play buy and support all the Games she has a problem with

doing so defeats her "cause"

 

The thing that annoys me most is that gamers, for the most part, seem to be completely against any kind of critical analysis towards video games. Whether it's about the treatment of women or the terrible militaristic and jingoistic views espoused by games such as Call of Duty or anything with "Tom Clancy's" in the title, all analysis is shut down by people calling it "whining" or "reading too much into it", completely ignoring the fact that this kind of analysis is done on every other medium. Rejecting critical analysis, especially in a way like this, only reinforces the perception of video games being for immature slackjaws.

 

if you walked into an artists opening at a gallery and started criticizing their work claiming they dont have enough females in their paintings or they are too militarised and not art, then yeah your criticism would probably be rejected too.

I'm firmly in the "Create whatever you want for whatever audience you want" camp with a strong allegiance to the mighty "If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it or play it" clan.

 

Not a very good analogy, since they'd probably be rejected with actual arguments instead of the namecalling that seems to be the "gamer" substitute to a real discussion.

 

I actually agree with much of what Prometheus has said, that her fraud and mild success is pretty unbelievable, but not for any of the reasons others have mentioned.

She went to CSU Northridge which has MANY prominent media scholars across quite a few departments (she has a communication degree from that university). This is relevant because there are plenty of voices that were far more authoritative and informed than hers, which also have main stream books already on the market. I don't understand how she overcame coming out of that shadow. I haven't looked, but I doubt shes done even the most basic peer-reviewed academic work on her topic of choice. Let alone anything that would deem her worthy to give a seminar to a big video game company. Whoever paid for that certainly didn't get their money's worth. The could have gone to her Alma Matter and gotten at least 5 well known professors, whom are actively writing and consulting on similar projects to her. Also for her to have been invited to TED is a even bigger slap in the face to both male and female scholars who are far deeper into this subject than she will ever be.

Its one thing for people to think of her as a "Siskel & Ebert" or "Bill Maher" type "personality" on digital media. But shockingly shes way passed that at this point, having been invited to speak at TED. Frankly that's why the USA is a mess in many other areas of cultural though, economic and political processes . Americans have no idea how to support real authorities, educated thoroughly on any particular topic and instead simply support the first "Anita Sarkeesian" that comes along and talks about something their interested in. Honestly we're doomed when someone like Anita Sarkeesian is seen as an informed authority on any topic. She at best should be a "host" and "presenter" of others ideas, not the "originator"

 

I think that's because a lot of it really is "reading too much into it". Squall is dead? Indoctrination theory? Big Boss is actually Solidus Snake who is actually Grey Fox who is actually Decoy Octopus? You can read into something that isn't there. That goes equally for "analyzers" as well. Super Mario and Legend of Zelda have absolutely no roots in sexism, so of course when someone makes a poorly researched video accusing the two games and it's fans of aiding the oppression of females, people like me aren't going to be happy about the outlandish claims and complain (especially when the "analyzer" has no idea what the fuck they are talking about).

You can analyze games, that's perfectly fine, but that's not what Anita does. Anita complains that games are not up to her standards (which is even more absurd now that we know she does not in fact play games), and complains that she is harassed for being a female when in reality she is harassed for being an obnoxious bitch that plays the victim card constantly. If all she was was a some woman making poorly researched videos discussing female tropes in games, not many people would be bothered by her.

Just because we call Anita a poopyhead doesn't make our points against her any less valid.

 

That's because those are lazy and bad analyses with little to no evidence supporting them, but someone wrote an entire paper on Spec Ops: The Line and there was another one about militarism in Call of Duty...then there was that Red Cross article (rightfully) pointing out some awful things about CoD that got a very dismissive response here...

Yes, she does. You can disagree with the results, but what she does is analysis.

Well, a lot of people seem to think just namecalling and death threats are enough, without even trying to make any actual points. Not on this forum, but pretty much every other "community" talking about her.

 

He is not saying you have to be "in the club". You can criticize rap music while you've only managed to hear half a song ever. But that takes away from the relevance of your argument, your knowledge in the area is limited to say the least and this undermines whatever point it is that you're trying to make. Same goes for Anita Armenian and her assault on gaming etc.


Offtopic: stereotypes are usually grounded in truth, and a common modern steretype for Armenians is: thieves, thugs, conmen who will make elaborate schemes to make a petty penny or two. They will also use offense as defence and are generally bigmouthed hotheads who like to flash. It seems this stereotype fits quite well with her imo.

Made me chuckle


The Amazing Atheist on Anita Sarkeesian: