Announcing the 64drive nearing completion

It means that if you have a PAL N64 and a PAL 64drive it will by default switch the TV mode to PAL

And if you try to run a NTSC rom on a PAL N64 and a PAL 64drive the 64drive will probably switch the TV mode to NTSC so that you can boot the NTSC rom.

 

What does running NTSC roms in NTSC and PAL roms in PAL have to do with detecting the type of N64?

If a 64drive detects a N64 system for which it does not have the right CIC installed, does it even run? I thought you need the right CIC for your system.

I read the quote from the FAQ as

Yes, the cart will detect the type of N64 it's booted on, and change TV modes according to the type of N64 it's booted on​

Or does it mean something else?

 

The way I read it, it detects the N64 its on and starts up in that mode (menu etc) so it matches your TV (you would assume PAL n64, you have a TV that can handle PAL). You can then run NTSC/PAL roms as you see fit.

You still need the CIC to match your console too.

 

And if i were to put a 64 drive with a "wrong" CIC installed into a N64 and flip the power switch, what would happen? Nothing? Or can i browse the menu but starting any roms would fail? (And is there any use to that?)

 

As the menu itself is an N64 program, it needs the right CIC to boot.

 

Right.
So any given 64drive cartridge will not work with both NTSC and PAL systems.

 

It will work if you install a second CIC and a switch to switch between the two CICs.

 

Has anyone done that or is planning to? Could that be made to work without a lot of time and effort? It is not a purchasing option on http://64drive.retroactive.be/purchase.php

 

The CIC determines if the 64drive will run on any given N64, if its an NTSC N64 you must have an NTSC CIC, and if its a PAL N64 you must have a PAL CIC - its a security chip, nothing more. Until there is success reverse engineering the CIC's and someone creates a multi-region CIC clone you will not be able to buy a 64drive that will work on both regions (Unless you install both region CIC's with a switch, but thats unlikely to be offered as a purchase option)

The TV mode is nothing to do with the CIC, the way I understand it is N64 software can query the consoles PIF chip (PIF-NUS or PIF(P)-NUS) to determine if the system is NTSC or PAL. The 64drive menu uses this to determine if it should load in 60Hz or 50Hz. Games on the other hand can use this as a way to check if you are attempting to run it on an incorrect region console, and can display an error message like the ones shown in this video:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvObp697b8g

I assume marshallh is suggesting in his FAQ that the 64drive will either patch the game, or 'trick' it into thinking the console is the correct region, so that it will load without a region error message.

I think its quite important that people differentiate between PAL, NTSC, 50Hz and 60Hz since the 64drive cannot change the video output to PAL or NTSC since that is set in hardware by the video encoder chip in the console. However it can change the hertz rate between 50Hz and 60Hz since that is controlled in software.

 

Marshall got someone to do this for him, and in the end it was a success.

Not to sure though...


Most likely, Marshall will use the FPGA (Cyclone II) to act as the CIC chip, hence not needing it anymore, as it would all be software handled

 

Its still a work in progress:-
http://www.retroactive.be/cic/
Hopefully they will be successful :nod:

The N64 would demand a response from the CIC before the FPGA would have chance to initialise, so its very unlikely that the CIC will be implimented in the FPGA.

I haven't seen anything about this mentioned by marshallh, but if you look at the back of the Rev2 64drive:-

There is an unused SOP14 solder footprint which appears to be connected to the CIC signal traces (Hard to be sure since its a 4 layer PCB) So I assume marshallh is trying to 'future proof' the 64drive so that if a CIC clone is developed it can hopefully be easily installed on older revisions, which perhaps also means a decision has already been made on what PIC/AVR will be used - this is all just a guess though, I could be completely wrong about this :shrug:

 

OK, what i think is confusing about the FAQs answer i quoted above is that it appears to be saying "Yes, the cart does work with both NTSC and PAL systems" when in fact you can't (yet?) buy one that does.

I understood "change TV modes" as "make the N64 switch its video output color encoding format to either PAL or NTSC", versus something like "assure a suspicious game it's running on the right system even if it's not" ;-)

 

Technically the 64drive does work on both PAL and NTSC systems, its just the CIC doesn't allow it, but I can certainly see your point, and hopefully marshallh will clarify the FAQ at some point.

I would like to point out that the 64drive cannot change the N64's color encoding format! The consoles 'fixed' to output either PAL or NTSC. All it can do is switch the hertz rate to 50Hz or 60Hz, this is separate to the color encoding format. In other words you can have the following video mode combinations:-

PAL N64 Console
PAL 50Hz when playing PAL games
PAL 60Hz when playing NTSC games

NTSC N64 Console
NTSC 60Hz when playing NTSC games
NTSC 50Hz when playing PAL games

^Its this last video mode thats a problem, since NTSC 50Hz isn't really a valid video format, and I dont know if any TV supports it fully (Some will show a black and white picture) In this instance you would need to use an RGB modded console to avoid any sort of color encoding, or alternatively you could patch the games to use 60Hz instead of 50Hz.

 

Yeah, i know, you've said so a few times ;-)
So it's either bad sound on some NTSC-only games or no PAL roms (without an RGB-modded N64).
I'm leaning more towards an NTSC one right now, but then there's also the everdrive..

 

The 'bad sound' entirely depends on the game, they dont all have an issue, and its not a game-breaking problem. The same issue can also apply both ways (PAL games on NTSC console, NTSC games on PAL console)

PAL games will play on an NTSC console, its just the TV might not be able to display them properly (If at all)

EverDrive 64 has the exact same region issues (Possibly even a few more given that it doesn't avoid the 'out of region' messages from what I know) and so will any other N64 flash cart.

There are no issues as long as you play games designed for your systems region (PAL games on PAL console, NTSC games on NTSC console)

 

Hmm... I guess he could use like a PIC or something shrug. As long as he has the logic code. Again, I have no idea. I do not understand the architecture of the chip nor do I even know anything about the N64 really.

All my hard work and thought, goes into the PS, as im a PlayStation guy :thumbsup:

 

which is why i wrote "some" and nothing about game-breaking

which makes multi-region compatibility a litte less fun, don't you think?

I know, the everdrive 64 is cheaper, but i can appreciate the 64drive's advantages..

I get what you're saying and thank you for the information, seems that didn't get across..

 

OK no problem, just didnt want anyone to get the wrong impression about the 64drive's features/issues ;-)

 

Excellent. When can we expect to see the PS1-drive?

 

sd card reader for psx that plugs into the port on the back?
that would be cool, i don't think it has the bandwith though