Another Ebay rip-off

Sega have emailed me back :smt023

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:40:56 -0500
From: Support@Sega-Support.com Add to Address Book
Subject: RE:Re: Dreamcast Hardware & Software [#192999]
To: richard blanked out for obvious reasons guys!!


Dear Mr. Mearns,

Thank you for e-mailing Sega Technical Support.

We are currently investigating several people and companies that are letting Propeller Arena be distributed but did not realise that the probem was so rampant on Ebay worldwide.

We are also currently setting up a specific email section and department to report acts of piracy or copyright thest against Sega of America, I'm sorry that this was not available for you and apologise on behalf of Sega of America.

We really appreciate this information. I will be glad to forward this
information to the correct department.

Do not hesitate to contact me again should you know of further retailers, auction sites, or distributors who are selling , distributing , or passing on the game Propeller Arena.As you know this game was never officially released by Sega and therefore remains the property of Sega.The code of the game that is being distributed at the moment is incomplete and has passed none of our stringent quality checks.The game was cancelled for Dreamcast because of a number of issues, and we will strive to prosecute anyone who has infringed on our copyrighted, patented, and trademarked material.

Thanks again for taking the time to point this out to us and have a nice day.

Sincerely,

-Matt
Sega of America Technical Support



What a nice reply and the first time I have not had a automated response from a company on an issue such as this, although I did at first but it said if the automated response did not solve my query, I was to send them another email which I did and I got this within a matter of hours.What a great company Sega still are.They really care!! :smt045

 

Just pray they don't go rummaging through our forums then huh?

 

Just to say that guy who is selling PA on the DC, I have reported him directly to Sega by giving them links to the auction now.Let's see if Sega can sort this out.Perhaps they may ask Elspa to raid his home.

 

I don't understand how they will tie Ebay and out forums together.This guy would have downloaded it from some torrent site or edonkey.They don't go after individual downloaders and stuff anyway.They are after dicks like this selling it for money and keeping on doing it on an auction site of all places.If they went after individual downloaders it would cost them millions which they would never recoup.Anyways what are you saying Tachikoma, you approve of this guy doing it on Ebay??

 

<sarcasm>

Yes, of course I do, I approve fully of the exploitation of unreleased software for the purpose of profit.

</sarcasm>

 

Yes I knew you did.

Ps I'll meet you on Icq the usual time to upload that batch of new ps2 games.Got Gta early for you mate muwhahaha :smt043

 

Not being funny, if Sega were going to actually go and prosecute anyone, I would have thought they'd go for the members of the forum who organised the widespread distribution of the game. Even that's massively unlikely though.

Why would they bother with small fry who flog a few copies on ebay? Maybe they'd get ebay to take the auctions down, probably not. They've got bigger things to worry about than warez kiddies making a few quid on unreleased games for their long dead system... DC betas don't mean shit to Sega any more.

 

Because those shitheads are making a profit. The community here contributed to a free public release. There's a difference. Yes it was illegal, but we're hardly a bunch of losers who are making a massive prosit from it.

Hardly. They are still SEGA and Sierrra IP. That's why these have bene taken down in the past, but apparently this fucker is fucking soem bitch onthe eBay VERO Team and gets to sell his shit. You're not actually saying you're defending these losers are you? Hardly a few quid involved - the fucker has already made 200+ pounds.

 

Of course I'm not defending these scamming twats. As far as I'm concerned they're the absolute scum of the earth. But the profit they're making is absolute peanuts to Sega. What good would prosecuting them do? It wouldn't cover the legal costs or the time involved in orchestrating the whole thing. The point is that Sega just don't care. It's a dead game for a dead system. They can say they'll follow it up, but you watch: they wont.

Both violating IP. Both breaking the law. The morality of the situation isn't what we're discussing here, it's whether or not Sega give a shit, and they don't, either way.

 

According to NintendoMAd's email they do give more than a 'shit'. It doesn't cost them anything to force ebay to remove these illegal copies; there's no need for them to gpo into prosecution. All they need to so is tell eBay to remove them and inform the ELSPA, who wil take care of these fuckers themselves.

 

On the contrary, it does cost them something to get these auctions removed: they have to dedicate some time to hiring/appropriating staff to track down these auctions and stop them. That in turn requires internal procedures to take place, which also take time to be authorised and set up. Companies don't do this, as a rule, if they're not going to gain any money by doing so, and they aren't losing any by letting it continue, and they're not being forced to do it for any other reason. Bear in mind that large corporations regularly throw out expensive fully functional hardware when it gets replaced because it would cost them more in administrative costs to sell it than would be worthwhile. Then think what the Sammy executives would think if they got told a few kids were selling an old game.

Of course, they have to give the outward impression that they're bothered by this. They're hardly going to turn around and say, "well, actually, we're not really bothered that these guys are making money out of a game we never made a penny from". But in terms of individual sellers making a few hundred quid, it's just so insignficant. It was different when the DC was alive, and people had just cracked it and were selling CDRs of current games openly on Ebay - then Sega were losing money, and they were concerned about the Dreamcast. Neither of these things are a factor anymore.

 

The fact remains that it is STILL SEGA IP and an asset that can be used inthe future. Pirated DC games/emulators are regularly removed from eBay so yes, SEGA does have an interest in cracking down on piracy - perhaps not so urgent a one as when the DC was alive but the fact remains that it is still SEGA IP and their assets.

 

Just a quick question- when does selling "back-ups" of games for dead systems become legal?

I would assume that it's whenever the parent company decides to release the rights into the public domain. This is why you can get a blank cart and copy a 2600 game and sell it with no problem.

But if the system is dead and the game was never released, is it not in the gaming public's best interest to release the game ala homebrew or whatever?

I don't know, I'm still torn on the issue. I like the idea of being able to play unreleased/impossible to find games and not have to pay up the yin-yang, but also the rights of the parent company have to be respected.

Kind of like if you got a copy of a movie that was made but never released, it might not be "legal" for you to sell it but still, some people might want to see it- and just like videogames there's a big underground rare/unreleased movie scene too.

I agree it's illegal, just not sure if it's right or not.

 

Namco is stubborn as hell. they are bringing the tales series over little by little.
i need to find a link, but when namco released tales of destiny here, in the u.s., they cut out a lot of crap for the u.s. version and they have no plans for tales of phantasia in the u.s.
so, last year, i downloaded it, with an english patch. i have already beaten it and it is a great game. if it came out here i would buy it, but it looks like it might be a while.
but, i guess their releasing tales of symphonia might be a good idea and get top released on the gba or ds.

is there anything wrong with downloading an old game that might not come out for a long time, though?

technically, it is "illegal" but no one cares. no one is making any money, unless some dick tries to sell copies, which is even more illegal in the first place.
like, its "illegal" to record vcrs and watch them, but ILLEGAL to sell them.

i have never tried to download sega stuff, though. but i think it is okay if no one sells it.
:smt022 wahhh! those meanies stole something that was dead and not making us any money. lets sue em' and get even poorer.
yay! that'll teach em'
:smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043

 

A few copies of PA on Ebay is going to destroy that IP, is it?

When these auctions are getting taken down, it's far more likely to be people like you or me reporting them, or ebay staff finding and deleting them, than a Sega representative threatening Ebay.

 

Stop being so know it all and I'm always right alchy, of course Sega will care and it's just stupid to say otherwise.

 

Instead of slating me, tell me why they should when I've already said why they don't. In fact, if you can't add anything to a debate except pety insults, back the fuck off. Jesus.

 

Nintendomad

Mind your own buisness. Sharing a beta is the same thing as selling it under current law. I deal with this stuff all day. Its all or nothing in this instance. Either its legal to share and sell or its illegal. I suggest you trun a blind eye to this matter, espicially if you have shared or given away betas. This includes recieving (I am sure you have)

 

prepare for another long post that will have 99/100 of it skipped by people that are getting bored of this petty argument.

 

NM's right. Does someone selling NEs roms on eBay destroy Nintendo's IP? No, and that was never the point. The point was that these fuckers violate SEGA and Sierra's IP and that's all there is to it.

What? And whose exclusive business is this, then? Make sense.

Never in practise. In practise, people who SELL such things are dealt with with a far heavier hand than those who share it..