Are there pictures, info on the Saturn 3D upgrade ?

that's true, panzer dragoon doesn't need the engine a shenmue needs, the comparisson was not good.

anyways, my point stills that sega planned the things in a very bad way and didn't do proper libraries for the console, and in my opinon, another "32X" thing could have been "the worst".

 

Had the Saturn been delayed for a proper upgrade the 32X could've been put to good use for sure.

What I still cant believe is that they actually made all graphics by software on the 32X. Not even today you can pull that off in a nextgen console, yet SOA went and did it.

Was it so difficult to get a good VPU on it?

 

had my grandma had balls, she would have been my granpa

 

No, she would've been Mrs.Mann

 

Shadowlayer has some really good concepts for alternative Sega console/upgrade senarios. They differ significantly from mine. We each have our own.

I'm a firm believer that Genesis should have been kept in the 16-bit era without a 32-bit upgrade. The SegaCD upgrade could've been strengthened to where it did many of the things the 32X did but without the RISC CPUs and not for polygons. I firmly believe a 2-format 16-bit Sega console approach would've been best, Genesis cartridge and highend 16-bit SegaCD with more colors, sprites, backgrounds, scaling & rotation, effects, and audio, on the same level as the highest-end 16-bit arcade boards (i.e. Y-Board that powered Galaxy Force II).

The Saturn gets delayed until late 1995 or mid 1996 to be fitted with Lockheed Martin Real3D graphics and PowerPC CPU. We're talking something along the lines of 3DO M2 in power with somewhat better graphics. Between MODEL 2 and MODEL 3, though nowhere near MODEL 3. To many of you that sounds crazy, but then, so did the idea of Nintendo 64, a $250 console with more power than SGI's $20,000 ~ $50,000 workstations - a scaled down version of the visualization systems costing $100,000, but SGI did it for Nintendo. There's no reason Lockheed could've have done it for Sega.

A Saturn delay would allow a great deal of time for Sega to amass a huge lineup of 32-bit 2D and 32-bit 3D polygon games for launch. Far more than Nintendo could have for the whole of 1996-1997, and at least as much as PlayStation if not more. Keeping in mind that some of the games are quick ports from the 2D System32 board, and many MODEL 2 games.

This Saturn (or Genesis 2, ahem) becomes a close 2nd place to Sony's PlayStation. Remember I am trying to keep this semi-realistic, not saying Sega destroys the competition totally and wins that generation, just has a MUCH stronger/better showing...

And there is NO Dreamcast in 1998/1999. Instead, as I've said before, Sega works with its partners on a PS2-beating, machine in the class of Xbox/Gamecube for 2001. The Sega console that replaces the Saturn is not just in place of Dreamcast but Microsoft's Xbox also. Call it Genesis 3 or whatever you want.


Anyway, we all have ideas, this is fun to play around with, and why not, there's not much good coming from what remains of Sega today. Maybe the Phoenix will rise again. One can only hope.

 

Sega should have designed a new VDP for the MegaDrive, Nintendo was able to put SA-1 as a CPU in the cartridges when SNES CPU became a problem for the games, I have no doubt that Sega could have done the same in MegaDrive cartridges but with a new VDP giving the console an extra life.

 

Theres no doubt the Mega CD shouldve been a lot more powerful rather than just merely adding sprite manipulation & CD sound, something more akin to the touted Gigadrive. It shouldve at least been able to cope with close to perfect aracde ports of the time, like mentioned Galaxy force II, Power drift etc. waste.

 

A SegaCD that combined with the Genesis had the power of an AES, thats what it should've been.

I agree that it was possible: if any of you check the Amiga you'll see it was far beyond what the Mac could do back then.

It had color and graphics that even workstations couldnt do, and all that for just $1,295, when the Mac was $2495!

Is all down to what components you have and the engineers working behind it. The Amiga had one of the best R&D teams in history (too bad the business team wasnt on the same league) while Apple was full of kids trying to stay alive with crazy Jobs in the house...

I think the Real3D team was ready to do something like that, but since I think the MSRP should've been lower than Saturn's (the actual one) I dont believe a M2-like console would've been possible at $400 or less for Xmas 95.

Now something as powerful as the Model2, of course.

And I agree SEGA wasnt able to blow Sony out of the water. The fact is that Sony was spending a lot of money back then, not on tech but on buying exclusivity rights for games, and making ad campaigns that dwarfed those of both SEGA and Nintendo.

And if we can talk about hypothetical situations involving old consoles here, where else are we going to? gamefaqs?:banghead:

Indeed, just look at the Dreamcast: I would've added a DVD drive and do what I could to keep the VR2 specs as high as possible (it could do 9M/pol in the PC) then launch it on black friday 1999 in america, and Xmas 99 in europe, japan and the rest of the world.

Leave the modem as an option, and screw MS: they were in for the industry know-how, not to help.

A higher-spec SVP in a lock-on cartridge would've been a better option IMO since you buy the adapter and the games are sold at the same cost than any other game.

 

wow, I never realized you had a PhD in Guesstimation

 

You're wrong. The N64 was designed by SGI around the Onyx, shrunk, cost reduced etc. The PlayStation was supposedly based on Sony's System-G 3D video editing hardware. Not the Indy. From what I can tell the I860XP was used on the Onyx 2, which neither console was based on.

Off the top of my head I'd say the R3000A was literally a faster version of the R3000. However the PlayStation uses neither an R3000 or an R3000A, Sony bought another compatiblish processor in from LSI. I know the internet says it's an R3000A, but it's wrong. It's not helped that Sony told people it was an R3000A, but I think they lied to prevent you using the extra hardware that was available & avoid problems if they switched to a different processor.

It's possible that they did change it, because Namco System 10 & 12 runs at a higher clock speed. Both those boards are difficult to run tests on. The Namco System 11 CPU might also be different, because the GPU definately is very different. They changed alot before finalising the console chips. Then of course there is the IOP in the PS2, if that counts.

The GTE wouldn't have been around in a V60 console, at least not in the same way. It only would have appeared after the switch to MIPS.

Sega were more likely to use a V60 for the saturn though, because system 32 used one & in many ways the Saturn is similar to that.


Sega should never have released the mega cd or the 32x. They should have pushed the projects that needed them onto the saturn. They should have designed the saturn better, but they didn't have the benefit of hindsite to see how great the playstation design was.

 

Well looks whos talking, the guy who didnt get the memo about the excess of lawyers in the western workforce...

And theres a job for that, several actually, from analysts to consultants, they're all hired to do that: guess how the things are going to be.

Not my particular area, but shit, this isnt WSJ.com either, am I right?


Anyway, smf the Saturn was going to use the V60, but that was before the PSX demo, when it was going to have the power of just a Model1.

Had SEGA decided to use a similar architecture I'm sure they would've used the V70.

About the addons, the problem IMO is that the upgrades to the Genesis specs were poor to say the least, and as rushed as the production-Saturn was.

But there also the context: at the time the SegaCD generated a lot of hype off the CD alone, even when the hardware was weak compared to say, other highend consoles like the AES.

And with the chaos at SEGA back then I'm not surprised at all that nobody there paid any attention to the PSX.

 

x

 

Got a link to that? cuz it sounds interesting.

 

I m actually a business and corprorate negotiation's attorney, in the field of shipping. Speaking 5 lingos is my niche, not that I m a lawyer , sorry buddy. I don't see how this relates to the threads I post though, since I keep my mouth to the level of my knowledge.

Estimations are fully acceptable only by those who are qualified to do it and when it makes coherent sense. Although I can forgive the first one, since we re not all experts here on everything, I at least expect some sort of standard when it comes to making hypotheseis - being overly optimistic on on hand ( to support your own views) and undermining the other factors on a "because I say so" basis is nothing more than fantasizing about something that never was and never will. Sort of like discussing the reproductive system of the Loch Ness Monster.

 

You sure have an ego problem there, if you believe this is anything like a board meeting and we're discussing an actual business plan.

I'll make it clear to understand: we aren't making a draft here, this is barely more than tossing ideas up in the air. We're playing the old "what if..." game, nothing more, nothing else.

I won't write down a 3000-word report to post in a online forum, simply because thats work, actual work thats paid IRL, and I come here for fun...

And you were the one that brought the career topic into our discussion, so dont blame me if you aren't in the position you thought you were.

I'll recommed (no pun intended) you read these:

Black Hole Tariffs and Endogenous Policy Theory: Political Economy in General Equilibrium from Stephen Magee, William A. Brock and Leslie Young

The Allocation of Talent: Implication for Growth from Kevin Murphy, Andrei Schleifer and Robert Vishny

 

I m just asking for more educated guesses. The issue lies with your evidence being lacking in depth and context for the aforementioned reasons.

This isn't the IGN boards, gameFAQ, or whatever else is out there , hence why I m saying this in the first place.

I quite enjoy reading detailed and historically/financially correct scenarios and the reasons behind this and that. Nevertheless, saying "yeah, I d throw a couple of nuts in there and a few bolts here and this would have been the best thing since sliced bread", isn't really relevant to the topic of the thread.

 

If this was gamefaqs or any of those half-assed forums not only most users wouldnt know what a Saturn is, but this thread would be filled with the kind of intelligent responses like "lol u fag" or "zomg u guys suck n00b".

Second, I dont see you brought any data to the discussion that serves to dismiss my or other people's theories about an alternative Saturn. You just keep saying "thats impossible" yet I dont see why Saturn couldn't have had the power of a Model2 when the PSX was almost at that stage.

The fact is that the Saturn as we know it was put together in very little time with mostly off-the-shelf parts, unlike N64 and PSX which had many custom components and were in steady development for years.

Anyway, back to the topic: about the Saturn CPU, what about a 60-80Mhz SH3 instead of the twin SH2s? I couldnt find the SH3 launch date, but from other data I figure it was in early 96.

Anyone has the exact date?

PS: what about a StrongARM? Intel wanted those so bad that they killed the i960, the Model2 CPU.

 

I have read this whole thread with great interest so far. I haven't posted anything myself, because I have no knowldedge that would be considered helpful in analyzing this question.

That however does not mean I can't detect optimism and personal preference combined with a history of posts that preach personal view , presented with pseudo-facts or without taking into account other important factors. I can vividly recall reading about the anti-wii and anti-nintendo posts and these estimations, unfortunately, taste similarly.

I have nothing against any member, but I can have the liberty to criticize when there's evidence that leads to criticism.

I have nothing to gain anyway, since I always try to seperate fact, an objective agent, from preference and opinion, a subjective agent.

Finally, this is not a what-if scenario thread, and since it involves a very important topic (that people may be looking for through google for example), it is a pitty for it to have so much unrelated Guesstimationism (especially of the biased opinion-based type!) when what people expect from this thread is solid facts based on contemporary evidence.

In support of this, may I remind you that the title of this information-seeking thread is: Are there pictures, info on the Saturn 3D upgrade ?

last time I checked, info didnt mean "what if"