Force Awakens Chatter II: The Spoilers strike back (SPOILERS!!!)

Ok I've waited long enough. This is the spoiler thread, where we discuss spoilers, If you haven't seen the movie yet and you clicked on this thread it's on you. Major Plot points will be discussed, speculation on Episode VIII and possibly beyond will be discussed so reading beyond this sentence THE MOVIE WILL BE SPOILED. I'll hide them with a row of dashes but It's Spoiler time. Last chance to click that back arrow if you haven't seen the movie yet.
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SO where do we even start? Kylo Ren is Han Solo's son? I had a feeling he was related to somebody or possibly Luke went dark and Kylo Ren was his puppet. But NOPE, Snoke (Who some theorize is Darth Plagas) got to Ben Solo and corrupted him. Ok I dig this, Kylo Ren killing Han Solo, If you knew Harrison Ford wanted Han Solo to die in Return of the Jedi you could see this coming, I did I hoped I was wrong but BAM Light Saber through Han's chest. Chewie lost his shit and Han falls to his death. Plus everything went dark. Great scene.

Star Killer base UHHHH errr ummm So it's a Death Star but not. It's a hollowed out planet that harnesses the power of the sun and wipes out multiple planets at once because.......We're Space Nazis' INTERSTELLAR GENOCIDE BITCHES! So yeah, the First Order are basically Nazis. When you need a big bad what's better than Nazis? I don't mind that it's there, I don't mind that but take that out of the movie and I don't think TOO much would be lost.

We STILL have no idea who Rey is. She's awesome, she comes into the Force unlike anybody I've ever seen possibly even Anakin if we include the prequels. We get some small hints into her past like how she got on Jakku but that's about it. Gotta make us wait a year and a half to get more right JJ?

Since Han Solo is dead I guess Poe is his replacement. Oscar Issac is likeable and Poe is just as likeable. But Apocalypse is in the Resistance, the last Jedi is the Joker............ you all saw this joke coming.

Speaking of seeing things coming the movie was predictable, I assume some of you saw Han's death coming. But I don't think anyone thought Rey was going to be the one to become a Jedi and Finn to just sort of be fearful and running........ We have a Rey.... we also have a Shinji.... See that one coming? What I didn't see was how the Millennium Falcon came into play. "That heap of junk hasn't flown in years" Loved it.

Also Loved the scene where Daniel Craig was the storm trooper and Rey got all Jedi mind trick on Bond's ass. How does Rey know these things?

Speaking of Bond, I have a nit pick about Kylo Ren's voice he sounds a lot A LOT like Silvia from Skyfall. The voice delivery sounded too much like Javier Bardem. If you haven't seen Skyfall that might not be a problem but for me it took something away from Kylo Ren. Who I think is an other wise awesome character. He's conflicted inside, he has a temper, He knows the Force. Plus what I said earlier.

What else? Luke is in the movie for 30 seconds. UH OK... At least we get more Luke in Episode VIII right?

OH and HOW BAD ASS was the Star Killer Lightsaber fight? THAT is how it's done.

I guess we get the story about how the Blue Lightsaber got into what's her name's Possession later. I guess we'll learn who Rey is in a year and a half and SHE BEST NOT BE LUKE'S DAUGHTER. Lets have some new blood in the lore. I'm sure we'll learn more about Snoke and how he lured Kylo Ren to the dark side and more about the Knights of Ren and probably meet some other Knights of Ren.

But after this trilogy what do they do? Episodes X-XII? Or maybe make Star Wars Bond style with a new Jedi every few years fighting Galactic threats in stand alone movies. It's wide open. I like the idea of yearly Star Wars as seeing Force Awakens showed me I am a MUCH bigger Star Wars Fan than I give my self credit for. I'm not big on Sci Fi but Star Wars Transcends that.

George Lucas fucked the series side ways with no lube. with the Prequels and the needless Special Edition edits. The thing is, the series is bigger than he is and it doesn't belong to him it belongs to all of us now........ Disney buying Lucas Film and taking Star Wars away from it's Creator/Destroyer is the only way would could have gotten a movie like this. Lucas wrote a story treatment for this movie and Disney was like NOPE and Mickey wiped his ass with it. Anyways...

If I had some complaints it's

-Kylo Ren's voice
-No pieces of music in the score that really stand out.
- no room to breathe so I could go to the bathroom, I had to pee for 2/3rds of the movie.
- WAY too many questions at the end of the movie, More questions than answers
- We know about as much about the main character at the end of the film as we did at the beginning, pretty much jack and shit.
- That it's a year and a half before we get more answers and close to three years before we get our conclusion.

So there's my Spoilerific essay. What say you guys? I'm sure I left a shit ton of stuff out.

 

I mean, this is obviously setting up for the sequel that was greenlit years ago, so having a bunch of questions isn't surprising.

I am a little worried that Rey is a Skywalker, just because we never learn her last name (Finn didn't have a name, so not giving him one is fine, Poe has one that I can't spell). Plus her father/grandfather's lightsaber likes her.

One thing I thought was really interesting was Ren's characterization. He seems much more full of rage than any other Sith that's been on screen. Yeah Vader would Force Choke you from the other side of a small moon, but he did it in such an emotionless, indifferent manner. Palpatine was a power hungry maniac, Dooku just seemed more disillusioned with the Jedi than anything else, and Maul's characterization was underwhelming in Episode I (it's like #592 of most underwhelming things about that one). Ren just straight up breaks stuff when something goes wrong. And does it passionately. Also I like how his lightsaber's blade isn't as refined as Luke's is. When I saw the close up in the trailer of his being all jagged, I thought that's how they were going to portray all of them, but Luke's is as crisp and smooth as ever.

Also, HE FUCKING STOPPED A BLASTER BOLT, LIKE, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Oh, and one more thing that you kind of glossed over....HAN IS DEAD, WHY?

 

Rey's theme is brilliant, and you notice it more throughout the movie on a second viewing.

There could be hints of some things in Rogue One, despite taking place before ANH.

My theory on the movie so far is this:
Ben would have been one of the first of the new Jedi. Wookieepedia just says he was born after Endor, so lets assume he was born fairly quickly after. He would have been in the first class of Jedi to be trained by Luke. We know this because Luke was still the only Jedi, so something had to have happened (ie. Kylo Ren).

Rey was born 15 years after Yavin, likely making her, lets say, 6-10 years younger than Ben. If she was going to arrive, or had been scouted by someone to be a Jedi, Ben would have known. And with her natural ability, he would have realized that he wasnt the strongest or the best, and he wouldnt stack up against her, let alone someone like Anakin. This is something that probably will come up a lot, Ren being second best to Luke, to Vader, and now to a young child. So, he went the quick way to the Dark side, imitating Vader in the killing of all other students.

Except one person escapes. Rey. With the help of the old man on Jakku, who is clearly an important figure if he knows what he knew, especially Luke's position. He would be the Obi-wan figure, keeping watch from the distance.

This is the best Ive got so far.

 

I liked it. Its a true Star Wars movie.

What I did not like is that its basically a reboot of the original episodes in part. Take down the shield and blow up that big round thing that is destroying planets. I thought we already did that, twice, before.

And I was kind of glad that the movie was over when we saw Luke because I really had to pee as well. hehe.

 

Did anyone else feel the need for a more epic soundtrack ?
Something like the Dual of fates or Order 66.

I didn't notice it while watching the movie, but when I went home, I didn't really remember anything special from the soundtrack.

 

We have almost TOO MANY questions though. There is 20 minutes of cut content that might explain more (rumor has it the Blu Ray or uh (Blu Rey huh huh?) will be an extended cut)

You know Harrison Ford wanted Han Solo to die in Either Empire or Return of the Jedi. Although he didn't really die a heroes death in Force Awakens.

I'm worried Rey is Skywalker too. She does kind of resemble Grandma Padme and I thought we were ignoring the prequels. It's time to expand this universe beyond the Skywalkers.

 

As a ghost or lame not really dead plot twist, I bet Han will make one more appearance by the end of the new trilogy.

 

or maybe in a flash back.

I'd like to see more members of Yoda's Race pop up. More Yodas less Ewoks.

 

Overall I thought it was a great film and I'm a huge fan of the original trilogy! Few bits I didn't like:

1) Hans death - Come on he was one of the most important characters in the series/is a legend in the galaxy yet his death wasn't mourned at all? Not even by Leia much? I'm hoping the start or some point through the next is his funeral. Which would really drag the emotions back up of The Force Awakens making it a strong scene to include I think.

2) I may have missed this but R2 randomly reactivating with the rest of the map towards the end? Was this common knowledge he had the other part of the map to Luke?

3) Would have been awesome to find out how Luke's old lightsaber ended up in a box there? I still really liked the rumour that his hand was drifting through the galaxy all these years and landed on a planet to which it was found and sold around. Maybe they thought younger fans would find his hand drifting through the galaxy a bit grim so the idea was dropped?

4) A few scenes towards some characters felt forced. Not sure if any of you felt the same? Specifically the potential romance between Rey and Fin.

 

The point is, and JJ has said it in interviews, that they werent going to explain every little bit. That is poor movie making. Han died to move Kylo Ren along. Vader couldnt kill Luke. Ren killed Han. Its a big deal.

And reportedly R2 began waking up when BB8 first saw him. C3PO says something along the lines that it is unlikely that he has the map.

I would imagine that will be explained eventually. Doesnt help or hurt the story any.

And I didnt think anything felt forced, really.

 

Everyone nitpicks and complains these days. Video games, comics, Star Wars, Seems the internet just amplifies that. We're all alittle like Comic Book guy on the simpsons.

"Worst Star Wars Ever, I will only see it three more times...TODAY."

I'm sure Luke had something to do with R2 reactivating. Like he set it up so R2 would reactive when some kind of chosen one was found (And I really hope Rey is some kind of chosen one rather than Luke's Daughter)

Han's Death serves two purposes, 1. To give Harrison Ford his wish for the character and 2. So Kylo Ren's loyalty is with Snoke and whatever his agenda is.

 

It was enjoyable, but underwhelming. By the end I felt like I'd seen it all before and it doesn't warrant another watch until it's out on home media. It's basically Episode IV re-told for a new generation. Hopefully the next one will play it less safe and show us something new.

 

I am so sick of people saying it's a retelling of Episode IV. It Parallels yes but it's not the exact same story. It's more history repeating itself.

I don't remember defecting storm troopers int he original trilogy unless the Lucas Super Star Wars IIX Special champion edition turbo, added that story thread.

I can understand why some would say that. But I disagree.

 

To be honest the small bits I didn't like or was a bit eh about didn't impact my overall rating for the film. I was talking about it with my partner after seeing the film. A lot of us will have seen the original trilogy back to back so if we had any questions from the first? No problem put the next film on.

I believe a lot of people including myself to some extent are left with the 'we want more' feeling that people will have felt seeing the original trilogy and having to wait for the next. Like for example I think I remember reading "The Empire Strikes Back" wasn't seen as strong as "Star Wars or A New Hope" back when it came out but now it's considered by many to be the best. I guess this has come with time and processing "Return Of The Jedi"

Not to bore people with my post but I think people will juggle their thoughts and score as the next two are released in the next 5 years. I guess it's an unfair opinion to judge a story without first reading/seeing the rest of it.

@GodofHardcore First I've heard about the 20mins you mentioned being cut from the final film. Hoping it gets added to the 'Blu Rey' for sure!

 

1) I think that the ending was set up to parallel IV's ending, which was big and triumphant. We didn't see Obi-Wan's funeral either.

3) While I'd love an Anthology movie about that, at least a comic or (more likely) a novel about the story of Luke's lightsaber would be excellent, and relatively likely (if they go anywhere near as hard as they went with the old EU, we'll find out everything).

The Vader/Ren comparison was interesting. Anakin became Vader to save his family (and became the Vader we all know when "he" (maybe actually him?) killed Padme). We don't know when Ben became Ren (we likely will eventually), but he cemented his turn when he STRAIGHT UP MURDERED HIS FATHER. Sorry, I can't get over that.

I had figured R2 was doing some kind of thing with Luke (he's had multiple masters throughout the 70 or so years of the saga, but he seems closest to Luke) where Luke was turning him off and on through the Force (even though droids can't feel the Force). Or it was a good storytelling idea that they shoehorned in.

 

Kylo Ren is either EVIL or he has some serious teen angst.

If it's the latter it's the prequels all over again. I REALLY hope we don't ever hear the word Midiclorean again.

Wiat I think I just figured it out.

Force awakens isn't a remake of A New Hope....it's straight up Evangelion

Angsty teen with Daddy issues. (Kylo Ren/Shinji)
Person Running away (Finn/Shinji)
Hot Shot big deal pilot (Poe/Asuka)
Powerful person named Rey with much mystery around her (Rey/Rei)

Oh and there's this



Of course Kylo Ren did the one thing Shinji Didn't have the balls to do....Kill his father.

 

Well, the Empire's soldiers have always been called stormtroopers.

I didn't really like the Starkiller base that much since it was just a rehash of the Death Star, plus it reminded me too much of crappy extended universe stuff where the Empire or what's left of it always had some ridiculous mega-uber-powerful superweapon. Overall it was a pretty minor gripe for me and didn't detract from the movie, though.

Poe Dameron was cool and I wish there had been more of him, and the other new characters also immediately seemed more likable and interesting than anyone in the prequels - maybe it's because the dialog was approximately a billion times more natural. The humor was also well done, and it didn't seem out of place at any time.

 

I don't trust anything from abrams. Does this flick really kick that much ass? Or is all I'm hearing just hype coming from the same tasteless proles who creamed themselves over cloverfield and the new star treks? (present company excepted)

Really wanna know.

 

If only Thrawn were canon again...

I liked Poe, he seemed to be new Wedge, which is awesome.

It was good, I tolerated the new Star Trek movies (better than V and Insurrection, but not First Contact or Wrath of Khan, even if ST:ID copied it as much as it could). He didn't go overboard with lens flares as much as in Star Trek, and Disney found him a tripod for most scenes.

 

• Liked the movie
• Starkiller Base was a little too cliched
• Rey will be Luke's daughter.
• Really want Rey to be the Emperor's daughter instead (he was the only other person to fight with the thrusting/stabbing style that she used and I thought that Luke had a more fearful than joyous "you're alive" look on his face at the end)
• Fin was a fine red herring, but some of his lines were REALLY forced
• Don't care about Poe (or Wedge, or Biggs or any of the other tertiary characters, so I don't want to see a focus shift to him)
• Snoke could be Plagueis, but I'd like to see him be the Emperor too (afterall, how would you look if you survived being at the center of the DS2 when it blew up)