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I am prepared to pay $2.00 for an apple but it doesn't have to be that way if there was viable guest worker program that wasn't a form of amnesty in disguise.

It wouldn't be a mass exodus though. We have neither the manpower for a mass deportation or a Star Trek transporter to beam them all back. We do have the power though to seal our boarder and over time catch and deport those who are illegal (If necessary slow enough to keep those industries affected stable) while at the same time letting in legal guest workers who obey the laws. I see nothing wrong with that.

No they aren't going to do that work for those wages and shouldn't have to either. For far too long the companies that have profited from illegal labor have been in their own little economic bubble by not having to pay wages in line with the rest of our economy. It is almost the same for example as the drug cartels. They make massive profits because the drug trade is illegal and therefore outside the normal economy. Once these companies are deprived of illegal labor and brought in line with the normal economy wages will go up and more people who wouldn't do the work before will be more willing to take these jobs.

 

I ve got a qualifying Law degree actually, so I don't study law per ce anymore =) I m also familiar with property and land law if that is of any significance to you.

That said, I know how to make the most out of the system because as they say: if you can't beat them, join them

This doesn't mean that deep down I don't like anarchy as any true skate punk does =p

 

@A.Snow

It will be interesting to see what happens. It's a pretty slippery slope. Very hard to effectively enforce it w/ the ass hats that work in immigration now. As someone who has dealt with them recently, I can honestly say the average immigration worker is a complete moron (or at least 3 of the 4 that I talked to were).

@Barc0de

I was just having a laugh... I know (and somewhat agree) with what you said. Obviously we're moving more towards a unified society, but we've got a way to go. Kaku Michio, who is a physicist I believe, has some pretty interesting thoughts on the subject. Says basically the internet and the free world learning English as a second language are the first steps in doing so.

 

You too have no idea what it is like in the UK then, either. They are much the same ratio per capita, I am sure.

Everyone likes to bang on about how shocking it is that there are so many foreigners in the country, but all I see is people working their arses off to make a better life for themselves in the USA. Harder usually than a lot of the locals. The major problem is that anyone around here hispanic gets roped into the illegal immigrant stigma, partly caused by media generated xenophobia and partly from fear of the current state of the country and a desire to find a scapegoat.

People still want cheap goods, cheap services, cheap food. They want their lawns and gardens kept neat and tidy, they want McDonalds or wherever to give them cheap fastfood. What majority works in those places? The minorities, that's who. They do the jobs that no one else wants to do and they cop shit for doing it too.

 

The problem w/ the US is there is a physical impossibility to enforce any of our laws. The US/Mexico border is way too big (unless you go the landmines/rifles route...which won't deter everyone, but that's another story). It is like the war on drugs: unwinnable in it's current form. Last I checked, the UK was an island. If they have too many immigrants, it's the fault of their own doing, and nothing more. Harder to swim than tunnel/run/drive.

Not from me. Read my posts.

 

You wouldn't be paying $2.00 an apple. Becasue there would be no apples in the store to buy at all, without the illegals to pick them. If they had to pay these people a living wage (which is estimated to be around $14 an hour) the farms would close up shop, because they cannot afford it.

That's what all these ICE raids are about that we keep hearing of lately. They're kicking the illegal illegals out, to create demand for a "bracero" style guest worker program, i.e. they want to make it "legal" to pay someone $20 a day to pick strawberries, instead of just looking the other way like they do now.

This is exactly what's going on. I live in the middle of all this.

 

That doesn't stop the cubans though, does it?

The English Channel is not a hard passage to cross, and a lot of them smuggle themselves in the back of trucks or require we allow them in on the grounds of being an EU member.

 

Care to compare the number of illegal Cubans & illegal Mexicans in the US? I didn't say it was 100% impregnable, but clearly far less of the blame lies on geography.

 

Any Cuban that makes it to US soil is automatically given asylum. So there technically are no illegal Cubans in the US. That policy in itself though has caused its fair share of problems

 

I'm going to say this once and then completely back out of the thread because I really hate this debate.

Americans have no idea how absolutely maniacal they look to the rest of the planet when they discuss this issue. There are legitimate economic repercussions to illegal immigration but the majority of American citizens react like a fucking plague is sweeping over the country. It's brutally xenophobic and every single time I turn on CNN and see stories about armed citizens patrolling the Mexican/American border I think, "Dear God, these people are fucking crazy. Absolute effing lunatics." And while countries with relatively sane citizens would tackle this issue through legislation, Americans see fit to gather the family, load up the pick up truck and go wetback hunting.

Seriously, every time I see this issue raised, I think of the Goya painting "Saturn Eating His Children." *Sigh*

Ok. I'm done.

 

Make all the illegals legal, adopt a legal minimum wage for the entire country (say $10 a hour), get them paying taxes and see what happens.

 

thougt this site is quite international do we have any numbers ? i remember that world map with the members on it it looked pretty mixed on all over the world

 

Because it is the principle of the matter. Why should we accommodate and reward people whose very first act in this country is to break the law?

 

Number of replies to do with the topic / first post = Zero.

Still today is the first day of the new procedures so I am hoping someone will tell us what it was like and the queues hopefully before early decemeber when I return.

 

They had this thing on TV yesterday with the company that produces them gloating about it. I also heard that us poor sods with permanent residents in Japan will also need to use it just because we aren't Japanese. Fucking racists if you ask me. Do they honestly think that Japanese do nothing wrong? You’d think that 's what they think most of the time they way they go one about how foreigners are evil.

Yakumo

 

Taken from the Japanese Immigration Bureau website....

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/keiziban/happyou/an%20informant_070921.html

Still it's their country and the immigration people in Japan are nicer then the nazis at most American airports who don't know the fucking immigration law in their own country and assume that if you aren't american then you must be coming to the US to be an illegal worker or to try and immigrate to the US. Then they won't even appologise for being wrong.

 

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/keiziban/happyou/pdf/poster-english.pdf

What a nice way to say, welcome back!

 

I had to go through the non-cracker line in the airport the other day b/c my son only has his Japanese passport. They don't have to do his fingerprint, but I noticed the fingerprint machines are only at the Non-US passport lines. I would *assume* Japan does it like this as well... and I go through the Japanese line (re-entry permit). I'll let you know next week.

For the most part, I don't give a shit. In principle, yes, it's the man doing data tracking on people. In actuality, they already have my fingerprint.

 

Yeah, let us know Gaijin Punch. I don't want to have to go back to those long nasty lines. It's actually a releaf being able to walk pretty much straight through with the Japanese.

Yakumo

 

Because you can't send them all back. Because they're making a vital contribution to your economy. Admittedly, they shouldn't have been there in the first place, but since they are now, there seems little point to continue to stand on principle when it clearly won't solve any issues for the illegals or the rest of the US. The UK has had millions of East Europeans arrive to work legally over the last few years and, despite the tabloids' best efforts, it's been a great success. If you make them legal, then they will responsibilities as well as rights.

Food for thought: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM