Goodbye, SEGA ESPN NFL Franchise...F YOU EA

Ouch, just thinking about that hurts enough already :smt1069

 

Haha, and Antipasta would rather think about Tachikoma doing that than play sports games, it seems :smt082

 

Retro "Look at yourselves, this is pathetic. Does it REALLY matter who makes the game, as long as it is good"

Thanks for some sense retro....this bashing an entire company for what every game company out there is trying to do is insane...anyone think that precious sega wouldn't do the same to EA?? They tried to wipe out the competition with their market jump in the 16 bit days....everyones against it until "their company" does it and then its a water fall of "hell yeah" and "destroy x company"....business is business across the globe..it's no a western thing, it's not an eastern thing...glad none of you run a global business for your financial stabilities sake.....with a bleeding heart "let everyone have a chance " mentallity you'd all be out of business in 2 years...if not sooner :smt023

 

@ Retro

I dislike EA not because they make huge sacks of money. I dislike them because #1 I don't like most of their games #2 They're bitches and #3 What good have they ever done for me? They put out the same stagnating crap every damn year. Sure, it's good (maybe crap is a misnomer), but it's nothing new. Fifa 2005--great graphics, same as 2002--slightly better A.I.! Who wants it?

Hardly because of capitlism. More of a total abuse of their position, the way I see it. Yes, all companies do it when they are the size of EA--MS, Sony, Wal*Mart, Home Depot...the list goes on. But that doesn't give them an excuse to suck elephant 'nads and give us nothing new year after year.

I digress. I'm not a Sega fan, not by a long shot. I could pretty much care less about the NFL games--I don't buy 'em, not interested in sports games in general. But, I just don't like the way EA screws "the little guys" out of the industry. It's a fact of business, it's not going away, but that doesn't mean I dislike it any less.

 

You miss the point entirely. This isn't about who makes the game - where was this even ever stated??? - it is about SEGA and other potential devcos losing the ability to use the NFL license.

If SEGA/ Take Two / Visual Concepts' ESPN lineup had been shit, if they had been putting out crap on a disc like Konami for example did with the ESPN license before them, who would care?

We all know, especially from FIFA and its superior competitors, how that hurts sales - even if the non-licensed game is the superior one gameplay-wise, because it doesn't have the license it will not be able to stand up sales-wise to the licensed game. Always has happened, always will, and because of this we're going to see the death of a superb franchise that was just starting to gain market prominence, share, and an esdtablished reputation with gamers.

Yeah.

 

I know nothing about any NFL or any other American sports titles, but at least today it does seem that the general public are actually recognising PES/Winning Eleven as the superior game to FIFA. *Finally*. Dunno about sales though compared with the two...

 

http://students.uat.edu/ryamccab/images/madden2006.jpg :smt082

 

Interesting thoughts on the NFL issue here:

http://iiiperception.blogspot.com/

But isn't Arena Football as 'popular' as the CFL?

 

No, I did not miss your point at all. You're whining because Sega didn't get the license.

Did you read my statistical post? Sega made 13 NFL games. So did Midway. Acclaim made 12. EA made 43 (i think those were the figures). It seems that they ALREADY made the most NFL games. Sega made about 10% of all the NFL games, but EA made 35%. Seems the obvious choice if they're going to give out licenses.

Oh, and licensing is a common thing. Take, for example, Star Trek. They will license 1 company to make board games, 1 to make video games, 1 to make DVDs, 1 to make replica weapons.....

You know what I say? GOOD. This means that Sega can get away from making shitty sports games, in particular boring American Football, and get back to making REAL games that are so much better... and that they make well.

You're really making a mountain out of a molehill. Focus on the positive side, stop being so negative. Is this really going to kill off Sega? NO. Losing the possibility to make one lousy game means nothing. They still have the rights to Sonic, Shining Force, Shenmue, MSR to name but a few classic Sega games. There is no way you can describe a Sega NFL game as a classic.

Ask anyone who works in any gaming shop - sporting games aren't popular. Most gaming shops end up refusing to take them in 2nd hand cuz too many people get bored of them.

 

Not a case of SEGA or anyone else not getting the license. SEGA already had it; the NFL made an exclusivity clause with EA which effectively prevents SEGA's NFL games from reaching any respectable amount of sales.

Keep in mind licenses weren't being given out by the NFL in the sense of exclusivity. EA insitigated the deal. Percentage of games made on the NFL license means nothing whatsoever; qiuality, consumer recognition do. If the SEGA ESPN games were shit as were the Konami ones before them no one would care because Madden in effect would be the only decent football games out there.

You're referring to other franchises where yes, it is common. In sports? No, it's (almost) never happened before.

You're writing from an extremely Uk-centric view and are betraying a huge lack of knowledge on anything you said above. For one - SEGA does not make the sports games, VC does, hence none of SEGA's development resources are used by the 2K franchise whatsoever. So your argument of getting 'away' from making sports games holds zero water (that didn't make sense) whatsoever. It's a non-argument.
Second - SEGA and VC/Take Two's sports lineup was hardly 'shitty'. With the exception of a bad apple here or there the 2K series has always been critically acclaimed.
Third - to you, in the UK, and in Europe to other gamers, football is obviously 'boring' and a waste of time. That means absolutely nothing, as in this market, the North American market, football games are one of THE core blockbuster-sales genres and matter a LOT. Madden has practically defined EA.

Where was it said it was going to kill SEGA?
Kill off the acclaimed NFL 2K series sales-wise, yes. The point here is that a superb franchise is going to be throttled because of this deal and gamers will be the worse for it. Above financail considerations it's the GAME here that matters, and the game is superb. If it was a shit game and franchise, who cares?
Just as who cares if someone in a foreign market writes from his perspective that NFL games mean nothing to him - who cares? What bearing does the opinion of someone who could care less and is not into a particular genre have on those who do?

You need to step out of your extremely UK-centric view here where football games mean next to nothing if you're going to debate this issue because it doesn't really touch EU at all. In the market where this issue and franchise/sport matters, the North American market, a UK gamer saying that it means nothing - means nothing in itself.

The NFL 2K series this year in particular was a flagship title for SEGA both in massive sales and MOST IMPORTANTLY in establishing consumer awareness and a loyal fanbase to the franchise, which means a hell of a lot more than 'nothing'.

These are homgrown SEGA titles/franchises and the comparison is moot to a third-party sports license. Non-issue there.

As for MSR - erm, Bizarre Creations game there mate. And they are no longer a SEGA 1.5 devco. MSR is not a valid example at all.

Classic? Who cares? Sports franchises are major sources of cash as was the NFL 2K seris this year for SEGA - you think a game being 'classic' will help a company financially? Do developers run on nostalgia alone???

Whoa. Worst argument you've tried to shoot off yet. Sports games 'not popular'? Even in your UK-centric restricted worldview that you're presenting here that's a lame argument - sports titles are among the most massive selling of any genre in any territory according to what sports are popular in thta territory. FIFA isn't popular? Winning Eleven? Madden? NHL 2k5?
Goodness. Sports titles are unwanted at game shops because the past year's edition is osmething no one wants being outdated - while the newer edition will easily sit on a front shelf and sell millions.

 

#1: Please, everyone (Europeans), stop saying American Football is pansy, boring etc. etc. That's all well and good that you think that, not knowing what the hell actually goes into it, but it really screws with your arguement. Maybe YOU don't care, and that's great, but talking crap about something you obviously know NOTHING about is stupid.

#2: Yes, id-republix is upset about ESPN being screwed out of making football games. Yes, he's a Sega fan, but I suspect that's only half of it. The other half is that the game was actually GOOD. Furthermore, now that EA has the exclusive license, gamers lose. EA can charge whatever they want, do whatever they want, and people will buy it because of the official NFL license sticker. Not to say they will do that, but they could. And that would just suck.

#3: The NFL games rake in a lot of revenue, so it actually is somewhat of a problem for Sega. No, they won't die, but it's not going to help them. Whether anyone here likes it or not, NFL games make huge amounts of cash--and that cash can be spent on funding the creation of more games.

#4: Sports games are extremely popular on both sides of the pond. Football in the US, football in the UK, not to mention all the other sports that put up respectable sales.

 

I'd just like to say on the avantar arguement side....

AWS: If you are offended by someone's avatar, by all means let this be known. I would personally suggest a PM, but I guess its ok in a post. If the person doesn't reply, take it to a mod.

I would suggest to all members that we avoid putting images relating to poltical or racial issues in our avatars, as they are bound to offend someone, even if it wasn't your intention.

I'm not sure how you don't see a silhouette picture of a man with a knife and a severed head, captioned along the lines of "warning, muslims" isn't racist or offensive. It is very much both.

As to the sports games, I hate football (or soccer) too. I just don't find a load of men running around a field kicking or throwing a ball to be much fun. It is a personal opinion. Many people like it - good for them. Still, many don't like it.

I'll take a photo of the electronics boutique catalogue I have from the US. The one where they have adverts for their trade-in system, and it says NO SPORTS GAMES. Over here in the UK, sports games are frowned upon largely in the second hand department of games stores.

The thing is, how much can sporting games advance? What's going to be different about NHL 2006 from 2005? The players names? And if you're as bad as we are, the kits. YAY, that's so worth buying a new game for, so I can have a different colour kit! </sarcasm>

My point, actually, was that this doesn't have to be the end for Sega. I was looking on the positive, but you choose to continually be on the negative, and even criticize other's views to do so. Its really pathetic, mate.

Incidentally, what would you be saying if Sega got the license?


ahh, I have a question for id-republix...

As some people on here know, I studied to be a sound engineer, and have experience in that area. Live engineering, recording, sampling, sound manipulation, composition... all that sorta thing. I would love to work on the studio side more than the live side.

This job came up. Working for one of the top independant software houses. I forget the exact title, something like sound technician. The job involved sorting out location recordings, going out on location and doing/supervising the recordings, working with said recordings in the studio, some other studio work on sound effects mostly, and looking after the music library, MIDI, samples etc.

The job was a long way away - the other side of the country. It would have meant moving away from everyone. Noone would be coming with me, so I'd have to find accomodation and survive on my salary. I'd be away from all my friends, not sure if I could afford a net connection even to contact them, and one person in particular I wouldn't want to be even further from than I am now.

So.. the job has gone.

Was I wrong not to jump on it?

There is another job that's available. Its nearer, but again might mean moving... and this time its a more expensive area. I guess the good thing is it would mean being possibly marginally nearer to that person. However, I don't have the experience on an AAA gama title that they require. I think the job pays more, and it sounds like an even better job - working in the studio, recording voice-overs, editing, mastering. I have experience with the software packages they use, its just the game experience I don't have.

Oh, and there's one more drawback, you might say. The job is with Electronic Arts.

So, if I had that experience, should I go for that job? Or, as a big Sega fan, should I not go for it knowing I might be working on a title that could be causing Sega some difficulty, as loyalty to Sega? True, I would be scrimping and saving what I could as before, but at least I wouldn't feel I was betraying Sega.

 

Again; this has absolutely nothing to do with the saleability and market share of sports games. Sports games are by and far one of the the most massive -selling genres and are a huge part of especially EA's portfolio.

What your point DOES reflect is that sports' games are the worst in the resale market, which is to be expected as no one wants to buy last year's edition. This however has asbsolutely nothing to do with the sales and success fo sports titles in general, which are nothing short of massive.

Again, your point reflects something else entirely. If however, you are referring to the playability of sports games and changes from year to year, they are definitely there - the SEGA NHL 2K series especially illustrates this. Also, people who buy sports' games tend to do so on a yearly basis because they want the newest edition, the newest rosters, the newest features. Advancements in sports games? Hell yes they exist. Comapre NHL 2K5 to NHL 2K and you wil see a world of difference.

As stated previously - you are commenting on a market and genre which is very region-specific and which you quite clearly have next to zero experience with.

Finally, advances or not, the FACT remains that sports tiitles sell in the millions, are a major and huge share of the game sales' pie, and this year especially, were a HUGE souce of income and BRAND RECOGNITION - POSTIVE, POPULAR BERAND RECOGNITION - something that SEGA desperately needs. Losing the NFL license will reduce the 2K series soelly because it won't have that license, wghich is a crying shame because it is a superbly solid game and franchise and one that was just beginning to do wonderful things for SEGA"s name that its traditional genres are failing to do in the North American market.

Your point was to be talking to no one in particular by arguing , again, with no one in particular that this wasn't the 'end' for SEGA. No one, especially not me, ever said this.

Also, your being 'positive' consisted solely of
1. Thrashing American football as a lousy sport
2. Calling the NFL 2K series a 'lousy' game despite being critically acclaimed (your foreign taste nonwithstanding) and claiming its sales never made a difference for SEGA
3. Ludicrously claiming sports games have no demand whatsoever on the basis that second hand shops don't take them in (ignoring this is because people buy the newest editions)
4. Claiming this made no differwence whatsover to SEGA (when SEGA has continuouskly maintained since the death of the DC that the 2K franchise and their sports portfolio was a vital compoenent of gaining back NA market share) and
5. Incorrectly claiming this would free SEGA's developmental resources would be freed up for other games when SEGA was not the developer but Visual Concepts.

As for my being 'negative', I don't know. I'd say that the ESPN 2K franchise losing the NFL license effectively killing a superb franchise sucks for games, for gamers, and for SEGA. Not the end of SEGA, no, but then again - I didn't say that.

I'd say what's pathetic - if you're going to use that word - is your commenting blindly and incorrectly on a genre that is as foreign to you for all intenst and purposes as Japanese dating Sims are to North America. Or European football managing games to Canada, for that matter.

I suppose, being a SEGA fan, and SEGA being the underdog, that I woul dnot mind as much as I do EA getting it. Even if that were the case, it would still blow, for the same reasons that league exclusivity sucks with EA having it.

 

I'd go for a job at EA; why not? Well, maybe not me personally, as I don't think I'd get do to do the type of stuff I really want to do, but it's a good job nonetheless. They are hardly the devil--they do make good games with often incredible production values. In sound, I can only imagine working on something of Medal of Honor caliber. :smt023

The reason the mags say no sports trade ins is so people don't screw them over with Madden 2001. And despite the fact that sports series are often minimally updated, they still sell loads for the few new features, and new rosters. Also, online play is usually updated for stability--in the case of Madden 2005 for Xbox, it's all new for this year.

And, of course, every few years the series will get a massive update--i.e. the playmaker control in Madden, new passing system in Fifa, V.I.P in ESPN--stuff that changes the game completely.

 

Timeout :smt043

Removed the argumentative spammy posts from the thread and consolidated double posts.

Everyone has an opinion and everyone is free to voice it - but when it starts taking over the whole thread and going seriously off topic then it's got to stop. There is an old saying 'don't do your washing in public'. What that pretty much means if you have a problem with someone deal with it in private, it's no one elses business so don't make it our business.

FACTS:

EA make weak or mildly entertaining games
Sports games generally suck but are bought in skiploads by casual gamer sports fans .. most people here are relatively hardcore gamers and prefer 'real' games....
SegaSammy can do better things with their $$$$ like pachinko .... :smt042

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