HDTVs and 4:3 border burn-in

So while I'm content with the HDTV I currently have (Toshiba 32'' LCD), I know I'll upgrade eventually. One thing that worries me about widescreen HDTVs is watching 4:3 content or playing classic 4:3 video games. I'd like to be able to watch or play whatever I want without worrying about the image getting damaged on the side. Is this still an issue with modern plasma and LED sets?

And before anyone tells me "LCDs can't get damaged by black bars", let me tell you right now from personal experience, that's completely false. It took less than a year for it to happen to me. Image retention, burn-in, whatever you want to call it, it can indeed happen to LCDs.

I've heard has something to do with the refresh rate of the monitor. i.e. if it's only 60hz it has a higher chance of occurring. Is this true? I intend to get a plasma or LED, so do I not need to worry as long as it's 120hz or above?

 

I think it may depend on quality of the TV or maybe how it's manufactured. I know literally nothing about how it works from a hardware aspect, but I have a 32" Sony Bravia something or another, and I regularly play NES and SNES with a 4:3 aspect with no lasting effects at all. So I'm not sure if it just depends on the TV.

 

If you have a quality TV then NO, it won't be damaged by black bars. My Toshiba Regza is used in 4:3 mode just as much as 16:9 mode and has no issues at all. This TV is now 2 years old.

 

Didn't you say before that your TV had a special option that would disable the sides of the screen to prevent the issue, and that it would only work if was hooked up via composite? What if I was using an emulator on my PC using HDMI?

 

My Panasonic plasma makes the bars are the side gray by default to try and prevent burn-in (or inversely, these pixels not being used as much).

Alternatively, you could run a break-in slideshow to exercise your TV's pixels every so often to try and help prevent any temporary burn-in becoming permanent.

 

I did indeed say it switches off the side parts of the screen or at least it seems that way because they are as black as can be. I didn't say anything about composite though. I hate composite, always have done since I first saw it 25 years ago. I've always been a RGB man. Anyway, it doesn't matter what signal I give the TV be it emulation via the PC's HDMI or retro consoles via s-Video or the XRGB Framemeister's HDMI. They all give the same results. I'll take a picture tonight to show you how black the bars are which is why I honestly do think the TV just switches sides not changing image, off.

 

I used to use an LG 52" rear projection crt tv, it suffered burn-in and the only way I could fix it (Besides spending $800 on replacing the guns) was use a dvd called plasma saver, basically it "burnt" the whole screen. It was dimmer but made it more watchable because it had no bright / dark patches.....

LCD's do get image retention BUT 90% of the time it will fade. You can use a fast multi colour flashing image to somewhat "reset" the pixels of an LCD (same method to fix dead pixels).
New plasma's come with a feature which moves the image around by about one pixel to prevent burn-in. Most warranties cover "burn in" so I would not worry...

 

As promised, here are some pictures. Now remember that this TV is used about 50 / 50 in 4:3 and 16:9 yet has no burn in at all from 2 years worth of use.

Watching a normal wide-screen BluRay does have boarders at the top and bottom due to the aspect ratio. These are pretty black as you'd expect.



Using a 4:3 image doesn't show any borders to the side of the picture. They're jet black, as if the screen is switched off.


The same image stretched using the TV settings. As you can see, there's no burn in on the screen at all.


So, I'm guessing as long as you are using a very high quality screen the risk of burning it are very low.

 

My Toshiba 37AV502R is now 4 years old. I've been playing a lot of 4:3 content with it; games, TV shows and old movies. I don't have any sign of burn-in on the screen. The panel in this TV was made directly by Toshiba. Nowadays I think BenQ and LG provide Toshiba with the panels they put in their TVs...

It looks really good and I am really happy with it. However, I miss my Toshiba 34HF85C CRT HDTV for the image quality but the insurance replaced it when we were flooded in 2009.

 

My Samsung LN40B650 (2009 model bought on February 2010) has no issues either.

 

Toshiba are a rock solid company that many over look. Their TVs or at least the higher end ones have always been fantastic quality and had bullet proof reliability. I did read about western Toshiba TVs using 3rd party panels though. Due to the lower price people want to pay. Japanese TVs are more expressive that the same or similar model in the west due to 1st party parts being used. Or so I read.

Samsung are also a good maker but can be a bit hit or miss depending on the model. Some have terrible sync issues with older hardware such as game consoles and others have nasty panels that die pretty soon. The model Johnny has is a good model to go for or was at the time.

 

And this is why I still have a CRT! I'll never get rid of it unless it dies on me. I've never once paid money for an HDTV and probably never will until the technology is right and the price is affordable. Using a device as intended and viewing content as it's intended to be viewed (i.e. letterbox) should not damage the unit, that just means (at least in my opinion) that the technology is flawed and not worth the price it goes for. I've had my CRT for ten years, used it for every kind of media I could possibly use it for and it's never done any damage what so ever, absolutely worth the £500 I paid for it.

 

Thanks for the pics, I see what you mean now. It does indeed appear that the sides switch off when in 4:3 mode, I wish mine did that. And yeah, composite sucks. Didn't mean to imply that you used it, I just must've misunderstood what you said before.

Ironically the HDTV I had this issue with was made by Toshiba. It had terrible sound quality (didn't bother me, I use HQ headphones most of the time) but the picture quality was fantastic. Since I'm in the US it probably used cheap party panels like you mentioned, plus the TV only cost between $400-$500 so it was likely just a cheap model to begin with.

Is it the same with basically every HDTV sold in the west? Should I consider importing one from Japan, is that even a viable option? I don't mind paying a bit more if it means I get far better build quality in the process.

 

My first HDTV was a Toshiba, and after my experience with that set i will never buy a Toshiba product again! Was amazing when i first bought it then about 3 months after i bought it (literally 2 days after the warranty expired) it developed a problem where pixels would randomly flicker red in dark areas of the screen. It wasnt bad at first, but before long it was unwatchable due to all the red snow. I called toshiba multiple times,starting with the day the problem started, 2 days after warranty expiration, and they refused to do anything to help me.

With all that said, my tv is a western toshiba, and it uses a LG panel. Even still, the whole situation has made me avoid toshiba like the plague. Their customer service is laughable.

 

I bought a Toshiba laptop that had 1 dead pixel and they announced it DOA and replaced it without question. Can't expect any better customer service than that. I've always liked the look of Panasonic screens, they always seem to be of the highest picture quality, at least for my eyes, although I have no idea on their reliability.

 

And there was your problem. LG are a shit company. Always have been since day one (they used to be Gold Star and some other cheap Korean company until they combined). They do have flashy latest tech but the workmanship is poor. I wouldn't be surprised if Prometheus Toshiba was also using LG panels.

It's not only Toshiba that compromise their TVs for the western market. Sony, Sharp and Panasonic all do too. It's all because in the west people want to pay as least as possible. No problem in that but the problem comes when Korean companies are selling flashy products cheaper than the Japanese due to cheaper parts being used. The consumer doesn't think / care about that, all they care about is the picture and price. So, many Japanese companies started to use 3rd party panels to drive down the cost of their products in the western market. There was a documentary about this a few years back on TV.

 

Is there a way to know for sure what's the manufacturer of the panel inside a TV before buying it? I'll be buying a TV soon and I'm 100% sure every salesman will tell me : Well if it's a Panasonic TV, then it's a Panasonic panel fitted inside.

I think like Yakumo when he says that most people only want the biggest TV for less money spent. They do not care about image quality or reliability. Is it 1080p? Can I hook up my TV receiver (which they don't realize produce shitty HD image because of stream compression...). But hey, they are happy and buy the TV on credit so everybody's a winner right?

 

Hmm, maybe you can find out what panel the TV uses online? There must be some site out there that gives information on HD TV panels and who is using them in what TV.

 

Samsung have a letter at the end of the model number (so its pot luck, each model number could have 3 different panels)

S, A, C in order of "bestness"

 

I think that black border burn-in is an urban legend or something. There's NO WAY a black border (no power) can damage the screen, because only thing that can is the very bright still picture displayed for many hours. And it's only applies to plasma, CRT and only a few types of LCD panels. In most cases LCD damage isn't permanent, for CRT it takes years to get any burn-in, for example - my grandfather used to watch one TV channel more than others and and sometimes slept well with TV still on It took 14 years to make channel logo barely visible only on that blue screensaver). Only old plasma panels without orbiter or other protection can be damaged. In reality i think this happened - some guy had one of those old plasma displays, played very bright NES game or something, left it on pause for a few hours and got bright edges burned in. He told it to his friend, he told it to next guy, and here we have 4:3 border burn-in myth. Just like giant mutant rats myth. In the New York subway there are tons of rats. Some person was scared by those rats and giant rat myth was born. Ten years later we hear similar stories about London underground, a few years later - about Paris and Moscow metro. Even though rats are quite rare there.