Night & Day for N64 games on the Virtual Console

There has been a lot of buzz around on of my favorite games lately with the new 3DS release, Majora's Mask. I prefer playing games with big 3D worlds on a tv instead of a hand held so I thought I would fire up my N64. Got a big 70" TV recently and even with running the N64 through my Yamaha receiver with upscaling and using a Monster Cable S-Video cord the image still looks like blurry crap. I am a collector so I much prefer physical copies of games but have heard the Wii virtual console N64 games run at a higher resolution so I thought I would give it a try. All I can say is WOW! I fired up Majora's Mask on the Wii and the N64 and switched back/forth between inputs. The difference is amazing. As best I could I took some screens of each on my TV to help illustrate. Draw distance, detail, etc. all look so much better IMO.

I played through OOT on the GC with the better res but knew the GC release of MM was flawed. Read the virtual console is pretty much perfect with no freezing or glitches.

Had to shrink the below images so the difference may not be as well illustrated.

On the N64 version Kafei is a few pixel blur running down the stairs and on the left you can make out his mask clearly.



The dog & the builder are also blobs on the right compared to the left.



What do you guys think? Awesome! Prefer blurry crap? Filthy casual that doesn't care either way?

 

Of course it looks blurry on the N64. You aren't using the right cables.

Have you tried using an N64 modified for RGB (with C-Sync reattached) and properly made RGB SCART or JP-21 cables with either a converter or a TV with SCART/JP-21 inputs? It should be a huge improvement over S-Video because it is what the system is doing natively whereas Composite Video and S-Video are created by chips which basically turn the clean image into a crappy blurry mess so it displays over those cables. RGB cables keep everything separate (well in 31 KHz RGBHV VGA cables, RGB SCART normally uses 15Khz RGBS so H-Sync and V-Sync are combined into a single C-Sync) so it looks amazing and it looks just as good as most emulators.

It can sometimes look better than the Wii using Component video.

There is a true digital N64 HDMI mod still in development over in the modding section.

Btw, Monster cables are ridiculously over priced and anyone with a soldering iron (and the knowledge to use it) and the right parts can make a cable that is just as good as a monster cable for much cheaper.

 

Wii renders the video at a higher resolution too, which is a big part of it

 

Isn't it 720x480p? I've been playing my PS1 games on my 60GB launch model PS3 and I've noticed they look so much better on it with upscaling enabled than on my PS2 with Component cables. Haven't tried RGB cables on the PS1 yet but I wish I could get the plug so I could make my own PS1 AV Box with Composite video out, S-Video out, RCA Audio out, Sync-on-Luma RGB SCART out, and YPbPr Component out for when it is connected to the PS2.

 

It's 480P. Good ol 640x480 VGA signal

 

Lol gotta love 480p. Everything uses it... except most things before the Dreamcast. For some reason, my TV displays the Wii at 720x480p over component. Is that correct or is something else going on? I have the Wii set to Widescreen 16:9 and the TV is also set to 16:9.

The only thing I dislike about the Wii and GameCube in 480p is the jagged edges. Jagged edges everywhere! Good thing the GCVideo DVI has a built-in scanline generator so once I get that, I can install the board and fix those edges. Anyone know of a good Component video scanline generator or how to make one?

 

If you use a scanline generator with a Gamecube, you're essentially halving the resolution - you're getting 240p instead of 480p (though with a higher horizontal resolution), and I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. The aliasing of edges in Gamecube games is part of the games and the hardware - you can't "fix" them. Personally, I prefer having aliasing to everything looking blurry.

The N64 is beautiful on RGB, but pretty terrible on anything else. I would avoid playing N64 games on a Wii, since it's just an emulator. If you want to use an emulator, it'd probably be better to use an emulator for PC like Project64. With Project64, you can set any resolution you want, whereas you're limited to 480p with the Wii. Any emulator you use (including the Wii one) will have issues and will never be 100% accurate - which is why I prefer to play on the original hardware.

 

I love my RGB N64!

 

Well, what looks "wrong" to me is the 70'' TV.
I have a CRT TV just for the older consoles. So I'm not really into "pursuing" anything for them anymore... I don't see the point.

 

You can make retro consoles look beautiful on modern HDTVs. It either takes the proper cables and/or converters or modification (such as RGB and HDMI mods). My NTSC SNES and my Sega Genesis (Mega Drive) Model 1 VA6 with the 32X and Sega CD (Mega CD) Model 1 look absolutely beautiful on my 32" HDTV via RGB SCART and a SCART to HDMI converter. They look much better than the CRT I had them hooked up to before.

Does it really do that? I guess I could get used to the jagged edges.

I used to use Project64 for a while but got sick of all of the graphical glitches and just bought an actual N64. I bought the games I use to play on Project64 and the glitches weren't there on an actual cart. That's when I decided that emulation would be only used for testing games before I bought an actual copy. I did notice that games ran smoother in Project64 than on the actual N64. Maybe an overclock mod would fix that.

I have noticed issues with Mario Kart 64 on the Wii Virtual Console. The sound seems to be off a little. Almost like a model 1 VA1-6.8 Genesis compared to a Model 1 VA7 and the horrible sounding Model 2s (good model 2s exist but aren't common). Maybe I could do a comparison and show you guys what I mean.

I prefer original hardware as well.

 

I am well aware of the rgb but i read you have to mod the console and use an amplifier to boost the brightness of the image followed by running Scart > Converter > HDMI > Receiver > HDMI > TV. That just sounds like a mess when the Wii does well enough for me. That also wouldn't give me the increased resolution the Wii N64 games have. I also jumped on the Monster S-Video train (one of the few cables I've read that gives you a real s-video out) before the ebay price hike. I think I paid $6 shipped on ebay for a new one. If the HDMI mod comes out I will look into that

I don't have room for an extra CRT and when it inevitably goes I'm not going to hunt another down to replace it.

How many scart converters do you have hooked up haha? I also prefer original hardware over digital copies of emulated games but when in my eyes one version is more playable while the other is a blurred mess...

 

There is a new RGB mod that is simply solder a board in and then plug in the SCART cable with no amp needed as long as you use NTSC SNES SCART cables. The amp is part of the old way for early N64s and is soldered internally to the N64. The amp isn't external and is quite cheap. This new mod works on ALL N64s.

My setup is console > SCART to HDMI converter > HDTV. I swap my SCART cables by hand since I only have two cables I can use and one converter. It also has built-in PAL to NTSC conversion so I can use my modded Sega Genesis in PAL mode. It isn't a mess to hook up (well the Genesis CD 32X mess is a different story). If you go with the Wii > receiver > TV, its the same just with one extra device.

Monster cables are pretty expensive nowadays. I'm going to be making my own universal AV box with Composite video, S-Video, RCA audio, RGB SCART, and Component outputs.

 

Links to new RGB mod? All I could find were the old methods. Also have one for the genesis?

 

The board is here: http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=209&rn=548&action=show_detail There is a link to installation instructions on that page.

If you mean a Genesis RGB mod, the Genny already outputs RGBS via the A/V Out connector so no mod is needed. I will provide links below for these cables and the converter I use.

This seller on eBay sells some high quality RGB SCART cables for the Genesis, SNES, Neo Geo, Master System 1, PS1/2/3, and Saturn but sells out quickly (and has sold out as of this post): http://www.ebay.com/usr/retro_console_accessories

When buying a SCART cable, make sure it is a RGB SCART Cable and not an XRGB JP-21 cable as they look very similar. It also needs to be C-Sync (if console supports it, if not use Sync-on-Luma PS1/2/3 do not support C-Sync), fully shielded, boosted Sync (for certain consoles such as a Genesis or 32X), and wired for RGB. Genesis model 1 cables should have an extra wire that runs to the headphone jack for audio. For this seller, the best cables are usually the most expensive ones. When getting a Saturn cable, make sure it is the one for your system, NTSC or PAL.

This isn't the converter I use, but it has better reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-PL-S2...&qid=1427267145&sr=8-3&keywords=scart+to+hdmi (if it is the SCART/HDMI to HDMI converter, you will see two style options under the price, click on the cheaper one under the price if it is not selected)

 

I decided to take some pictures of my N64 connected to my PVM over RGB. Looking at these pictures on a modern display doesn't really do it justice, but you can sort of get an idea of what it looks like.















By the way, Conker was never released on Virtual Console.

 

N64 emulation on PC is still pretty much crap. The Wii emulation is far better and closer to the original. And IMO more than good enough.

 

Wow that looks so much better than Composite, which I'm used to on my N64. I need money for Tim's N64RGB Board now...

 

My N64 is an NUS-CPU-04, so I didn't need a board. Modding the CPU-04 and earlier consoles for RGB is pretty simple, from what I understand; the system already outputs RGB, so you just have to connect the RGB leads to an amp and connect the amp to the AV connector. APE did the mod for me. You can take a guess at what version your system is by looking the serial numbers in this thread: http://forums.modretro.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1417 . The only way to know for sure is to open up the console.

 

I just got rid of my old UK N64 and imported a pre-modded French one.

 

If you jailbreak (or whatever it's called) a Wii, can you then play any N64 game on the emulator? If so, that would be fantastic!

Though I'm happy enough using my real N64, it doesn't look brilliant on my LDC TV (I hate the way modern TVs often don't work well with older consoles) but it's good enough.