No Nintendo Revolution at E3..wtf

I wasn't directing my comments to any single person. This is definitely not the first time that people have come up with general strategy that Nintendo needs to follow. There's been 3-4 of these in the recent past, and they're very tiresome (bitchfest or not).

Nintendo will do whatever they want. They make good cash off of the GBA which will last a while. The DS hasn't exactly bombed in the face of the PSP either, so again -- they're not doing so bad. Why do they put Mario on everything? Because it sells... it sells a lot. The same reason Capcom has made 79 different versions of SFII. Why do 3rd parties give Sony rim jobs? B/c PS2 games sell. Seeing a pattern?

LoganJ has actually breathed some sense into this thread. Is Nintendo perfect? Not by a long shot. They're not stupid fucking idiots either. As stated, the DC had a pretty strict "no old franchises" theme that was at least one nail in its coffin. The DS and presumably revolution will have WiFi built in. Sound like they're ignoring their fan base? Microsoft was probably the most careless of any of the 3 contenders this generation by having what I like to call "stupid whitey capitalist syndrome" where you assume Japanese or other Asian cultures will want to buy your crappy wares. They lost money hand over fist in Japan, but everyone excused it b/c they were "the new guys".

Sorry if I seemed ebrassive. I'm not trying to bust anyones balls. It just seems like we've had this discussion too many times, and that we will unfortunately have it many, many more.

 

can't we care a bit about nintendo's future? We're looking like a mother that suprotect is child, it's may or may not be our favorite, but it's still our children (we feed him by our monet, ya know?) and we know he isn't stupid, but we still want all the good he can have. We just don't want him to fail. and you're the rebel teenager who's saying he isn't stupid, and that we need to let him go and experience, and he will certainly do many mistake, but that's how the way it is, and he's still not stupid, we know, that's how life is. Yeah, it a bit like this story, it's a timeless story that hapened, hapen and will hapen forever in humanity's life, and you just can't stop it
globaly, sad but true.


Awww...this cute story's gonna make me cry!:smt022

cahaz

 

Cahaz, I don't understand. You say you don't want Nintendo to use its key characters, yet you only complain about Mario. What about Zelda? They are making another one for the GC, don't you think it's time for Nintendo to stop making Zelda games? Or Metroid? Why oh why did Nintendo have to make two of those sorry games for the GC? What I'm trying to say is it looks to me like you are a Mario hater.

 

There's a difference between sequels, Spinoffs, and Rehashes when it comes to games, and to illustrate I will use Capcom vs. Nintendo. If this offends anyone, too bad.

A spinoff is when you take a character that was made famous in one game and make a totally different game with that character in it, partially becasue name recognition sells what would otherwise be a game that may go unnoticed.

A rehash is when you take the exact same game, change a few sprites or characters, maybe add a few features, slap a number on it and sell it as a "sequel."

A true sequel however is when you not only continue the story of a particular character, but you also take the established play mechanics of the preceeding game and add stuff to it that truley makes it unique, so the game stays within the same genre but is a different game in and of itself.

The Mario series has eight big games (SMB1, SMB2, SMB3, SMW, SMW2, SM 64, Yoshi's Story, SM Sunshine.) Of these eight, every one of them is a totally different game than the one before it, with the exception of SMB2 (Japanese version since Doki Doki panic doesn't count.) These games are true sequels, as in each game took an established character and play mechanics, and brought them to the next level with innovation and imagination, as far as that particular character was concerned.

In SMB1 & 2, all you could do was jump, run, grow big, and throw fireballs. (SMB2 introduced some different enviromental hazards, like wind, reverse mushrooms, and uh... that's about it. But that was a big deal in 1985. ) SMB 3 had you doing all the stuff from the first two but also wearing different animal suits, flying, throwing hammers, choosing a non-linear path from an overworld map, jumping around in a giant shoe, playing mini-games, etc. SMW did all the stuff from SMB3 but better, and also had you riding a dinosaur who had his own strategic powers that you had to use at least a few times in a game. Yoshi's story did all that and more, now with the added play mechanic of saving whining baby Mario. SM 64 took every platforming tried and perfected concept from the old series and made it 3D, which was new ground at the time. This game pretty much invented most of what gaming is right now, with the "sandbox" approach to level desgin (as in a level where you complete different parts of it at different times.) SM sunshine added Yoshi again and a water cannon to shoot stuff with, etc. Each game in the series build upon what was established in the last and tries to enter something new at the same time. They are sequels.

Megman 1-7 are not sequels, they're rehashes. Don't get me wrong, they're fun, the character desgin is fabulous, the levels are challenging but balanced and not to hard, etc. But the only difference between any of them is you fight heat man in one game and tree man in another game, etc. Oh yeah, you get a dog starting in part 3 or something. By the end you could do Hadokens. The first real "sequel" to Mega Man was Mega Man X, and after that Mega Man legends. And even those have two or three rehashes of them as well.

Streetfighter II, SFII Champion edition, Turbo, Superstreet fighter II, and SSFII Turbo are also not sequels, they're rehashes. They're essentially the same game with a few sprites moved around and like super combos added. Then one of them has Akuma, then the next lets you play as Akuma. The "sequels" to SFII is SFIII and SF Alpha, each of which has three rehashes of their own. So you have roughly the same time period (1985 to 2001) in which one company made 8 original games with one franchise while another company made 4 original games and 14 rehashes with two franchises.

This doesn't mean Nintendo is free from rehashes. How many Pokemon games are there?

Games like Mario tennis, Mario Cart, Megaman soccer, Puzzle fighter, Wario ware, Super Smash bros, etc. are Spinoffs, as in they could be games in their own right but use characters established from other franchisies. Here Nintendo and Capcom break about even, as there's like 90 games with Mario in it (Mario pinball?) While Capcom tends to blend it's characters into other genres from time to time (Strider Hiryu or Arthur from Ghouls in Ghosts Marvel vs. Capcom for isntance.) I personally don't mind Spinoffs so much, it's kinda like you have a universe of characters (like the Marvel Universe) so you have to think like what do these characters do when they're not saving the princes or beating each other up? Play Golf? It can get a little overdone sometimes (Metroid Pinball? Give me a fucking break. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.)

So anyway, the way I look at it is I'd rather have a smaller amount of good, original games starring my favorite characters rather than a shitload of the same one game shot out every year with a few different options. But the truth is there is no company that isn't guilty of exploiting it's name recognition to sell a few million games. Except maybe Oddworld. Abe's fighters? Munch's tennis?

 

I think both GaijinPunch and Hawanja are right.

I have some things to add, though.

First: Megaman Soccer ROCKS. I used to play that a lot in Junior High.
Second: Mega Man X2 and X3 are sequels, they do introduce many new elements. X4 is a sequel as well, if not a very good one, but it was great for its time. X5 does improve a lot upon the X4 model, and X6 has randomly made levels. X7 sucks ass, and X8 I have not played.

And yeah, the dreamcast introduced many super-cool new franchises, like Shenmue or Jet Set Radio. I'm not sure, but I think Nintendo is missing out on great chances in doing the same... but let's face it. Even back in the days of the Super Nes, their best games were sequels or re-makes. You know, Super Mario, Metroid, Zelda. They were, however, huge leaps forward from the NES versions (though I do consider SMB3 Superior to SMW). It's just... hard, to make a "huge leap forward" in 3D, I guess.

There's also a lot of potential for innovation in the GBA and DS. Let's hope a lot of 2D stuff redeems nintendo.

And about Revolution - I think it COULD be their last console if it REALLY miserably fails, but I think it'll improve a lot upon the Gamecube, which isn't weak at all. If someone should take care, it's Sony - their PS2 sells but doesn't bring anything new to gaming.

 

Fully agree.

Agree #2, anyone here who honestly thinks they're all the same game because the protagonist wears a red hat should reconsider their hobby - or at least play them before making such judgements.

Agree #3... but I didn't care then, nor do I know. I'd love it if Nintendo came along with unknown characters inside fresh, stylised, dense and involving games - but they won't want to risk a Shenmue-level investment, and you know why? Because Sega lost stacks of cash. Do you really think it would be wise for Nintendo to pick up the rights to Shenmue 3 and make it a system exclusive? What would be the chances of a profitable return, in honesty? I mean sure, we can all sit here and say "well, I'd buy it", but you all know both Shenmue games bombed, and the third would as well. These are exactly the "opportunities" that Nintendo have avoided so far.

It's a fact that as the cost of a game increases, the level of risk that is acceptable to the investor decreases. So if you don't like sequels/tie-ins/re-hashes, then the years from now onwards are going to suck. Personally I'd be happier with Mario et al than the other increasingly pervasive marketing ploys which Nintendo might go with - the rap/gangsta "I'm a black man" bullshit, or the attitude-xtreme-to-the-max angle. Seriously, give me the fucking plumber any day, at least I can kid myself that I'm not consciously buying into the embarrassing and insulting "young adult" marketing dollar.

 

Can't we say things here without being judged as a (place name here) Fanboy or (place name here) hater? I mean, i never said i disliked mario, i like it very much , but i'm just tired of seeing him everywhere, on every game nintendo do (or the most of anyway). I like the real mario games (at the exceptions of mario kart and mario rpg, wich i like too), not Mario place a sport here . I aim at mario because it's the best exemple i could give from nintendo, but i also said nintendo should stop throwing their characters everywhere, every of them. and, at the place, start doing real sequels to those. i don't say they should stop making mario, zelda, metroid or whatever, i would just love if they could bring new characters, because apart from pikmin, the last big nintendo character was on the super nes (star fox) (donkey kong didn't apeared on snes, and it came from rare on snes, with the colaboration of ninty) . why couldn't they do a game without mario face anyway? because it wouldn't sell? have they even tried? and i could bring some fresh air.... Anyway, i must add imo here, for all this paragraph.

cahaz

 

If you read my post just prior to yours I answered that - it's not that they can't, it's just that they won't take the risk.

 

oops, sorry, i was a bit late for school when i wrote the answer, i wasn't able to read everything.
anyway, i agree with you on this, they're able to imagine and take the risk of inovating in hardware,
but they're doing the same old formula in software because they're afraid of what's outside that circle... weird but true. (imo)


.....i think i should make a new sign with a big IMO on it, like that, i wouldn't be obligated to type it at the end of my replies (and i couldn't forget it)) and i would never be beaten for my opinions again... :smt043

Imo seems the key word for everything anyway, imo. :smt043

cahaz