Paypal now doing full refund on "not as described" claims

PayPal's new policy isn't really that big of a deal. The Buyer still has to return the item to the Seller before the Seller has to issue a refund. And the Buyer has to pay for return shipping. That's actually standard internet protocol for just about all websites so eBay isn't really doing anything different there. In the end that's the only way it could be. You can't give a refund for the original shipping plus the item plus return shipping. There would be way too much abuse. Buyers would probably flood eBay/PayPal with claims even if they know they don't have much of a chance of winning because hey...maybe they'll get lucky and Paypal will side with them. Having to pay the return shipping cost probably makes a lot of Buyers think if it's worth it or not and substantially cuts down on claims. It also forces the Buyer and Seller to work together to work out a compromise.

Since a 100% refund (both shipping ways) wouldn't make much sense I suspect eBay will go down that road soon enough and send me an email saying how great it is for my business. Then I can send them a nice email thanking them for helping me out.

 

Hi got a phone call today off paypal and says i owe £557.33 back here on this tread.

Now i closed the account before he opened a case what should i do.?

They said he sayed not as described and if i dont pay paypal back they would get the debt collection agency to collect my dev iteams.

I had a phone call from this number 0844 3380475 is this fake?

 

I would do the following. I would go to paypal.com, get the support number, call support, give them the number that called you and ask if there has been activity associated to your previous account and then go from there . . .

-Disjaukifa

 

Ok thanks will do.

 

Raylynd user

Hi, finally I find Raylynd.
I just registered to say that Ebay user is a scammer.
It has 3 of paypal complaints that requested £ 557.33 for the article, another complaint Academy of the Spanish police and a complaint from another Spanish user called Synbios-bcn and also claim to 591.52 euros that sold you the game that sold me me too, fooling away much of what really sold me.
First of all forgive my English, I'm using the google translator to get in touch with you.
I'm not saying this phrase if that if I'm going to prove to the conversations I had with the messenger:

I saw the BETA of shenmue on EBAY, I quickly got in touch with RAYLYND purchase the article before you ask around, but especially before purchasing the article asked if there were more betas available and I said no

I bought the item at a price of 557.33, exorbitant price, giving to understand that is something truly unique when the recorder has a GDR and is dedicated to make illegal copies of a translation BETA, not BETA game production.

When I get the game and I smelled something bad, the test found it.
"That was a translation BETA.
"That sold an item that was not described correctly on ebay intentionally.

Worst of all, I got in touch with him to solve the problem, I said I did not want the item, I send the article and give me back the money.
He told me no, I do not have the money he had bought a bed with the money, I told him I did not care what you have bought.
I did not want that item and please give me your mailing address to send the item and give me back my money.
He kept insisting that I did not return until I became angry and said that it would seek to paypal.
Then within seconds the messenger disappeared a few minutes and returned, telling me who I would claim that he had closed the paypal account and I did as he had disappeared.
I said it was a bad seller and I was very disappointed.
Then I repeated that I would return the money and put me in the messenger and ignore me forever broken down.

I have proof of everything that I represent in this dialogue, are delivered to the police, this guy will pay the legal consequences.
Be very careful with it.
I have nothing else to say, we are waiting for the courts to get in touch with him and that trial.
A Raylynd only say that let me down completely, we will be in court.

what a fucking joke i have paid paypal back so cant do fuck all i am in the uk your where ever what a cheek to call me a scammer.
do what the fuck you like its not bother me.
i will report you to the main guy on this fourm admin i know him personally.
and plus one thing why buy it if you think its fake plus have a cheek to release it.

Private messages assembler forums:

Re: Shenmue BETA
what a fucking joke i have paid paypal back so cant do fuck all i am in the uk your where ever what a cheek to call me a scammer.
do what the fuck you like its not bother me.
i will report you to the main guy on this fourm admin i know him personally.
and plus one thing why buy it if you think its fake plus have a cheek to release it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenseiken
Hello again, I pass this link to read it.
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...t=29692&page=3
We reported that allegations of fraud have 2 users with the two claims pending paypal.
I do not say anything else, in my country is criminal and you're up 2 complaints against you.
Nothing more, my 2 attorneys handle the case, we will be in court and begins to worry because you will need help.

 

So Raylyd is duping his shenmue beta and selling it over and over for £500?

 

I read it as being an English beta, with an incomplete translation, rather than a Japanese one, which in that case is perfectly fine to sell.

 

I think this is the line that ShovelThumb is referring to. Needs something other than a Google Translate to be honest.

 

I remember trading Dreamcast stuff with Synbios-BCN. I think he may have been a member here or on DreamcastHistory, but he used a different psuedonym for forums which I cannot remember at the moment so I'll have to sleep on it, though I think it may begin with an F? Maybe not. I have a feeling he may have also got the unreleased Flintstones Viva Rock Vegas at the same time as me too, though I could also be wrong about that. I do remember he was a pretty serious Dreamcast collector though and if he is pissed enough with Raylyd to chargeback it is probbaly with good reason, so Kenseiken's problem could be real too just that the language barrier is proving difficult.

EDIT: Synbios-BCN left positive feedback though so I don't think that is the issue. I think Synbios-BCN is Fatalist .If it is them perhaps they could help shed some light with their experiences and maybe translate for the other chap. If it is not, my bad. Perhaps Kenseiken is wondering why there are 2 sales of the beta? Maybe they don't realise more than one copy of a beta can exist and think they got a clone? Maybe they even did get a clone as they were both Ver.0400?

Raylyd could have still been in the right the whole time though, except his customer service from the examples given with regards to the swearing at a stranger are not good at all. Swearing is perhaps permissable when directed at a third-party but directed at your fellow trader is uncool.

I've had issues with at least 3 members on the forums. Paulo was one, I sold him an Apple Mac Mini. I can't remember what the problem was, maybe I forgot to mail the keyboard or mouse at the same time and it spoiled the surprise present for his girlfriend. I can't even remember if I made things right though I would hope that I did. Oldengineer was another when I was painfully slow to send a PlayStation DTL-H2080 out (though with my problems being explained in Hospital now the reasons as to why make sense). I think I sent it sooner or later but I'm not sure. I ended up having to send out another duplicate item (as I had a few courtesy of GaijinPunch bidding and shipping to me). There was another chap, I forget their name, who I sold the prototype Dreamcast Set 4 dev box to from England to Mainland Europe. Apparently the hard drive came loose and knocked some stuff off inside. Not much I could have done about that and it arrived from America to me in the UK NP. I was skint at the time but offered to pay for the necessary repairs. I didn't get a response (or did I?), but I didn't bitch at them either or call them a liar either. I've also had good experiences with the aforementioned members + a lot more too, such is life.

The point of the above though is even if you have an issue and regardless of who is at fault, you shouldn't really be swearing at your customers, even privately. You should be doing what you can to work through it and resolve the situation so everyone wins, or loses equally, or at least fairly. The above people may never shop with me again for what may be trivial issues, it is sad for me but I'm fine with that. If there ever was going to be a slim chance they may return though insulting them would'nt have helped. If you would like them to reccomend a friend swearing at them won't help either. IMO though they overpaid for the Shenmue Beta even with a partial refund, but if they were prepared to pay it they have to live with it.

I'm glad PayPal are doing full chargebacks on not as described items though. I've been burned a few times for small amounts but it all adds up. Some items I tried to get a legitimate refund on stuff (I don't try for illigitmates BTW!), but PayPal themselves have refused to pay out due to some bullshit terms and conditions such as not for electronic/virtual items or whatever (Promo codes for DLC etc not working). Of course this new power is good if it will be policed properly, but chances are PayPal will do everything in their power to automate the process to keep costs down and in doing so they will shit on a lot of people

 

Is there a picture of the discs? I may have owned these at one point.

I found some old pictures with the Shenmue I sold. It is the black disc. DreamTr also sold Shenmue GDRs so they are out there.

 

It won't be the black disc, Buyatari. GD-R from the eBay pic.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120628512835

 

The black disc might have been the passport disc.

 

Those discs did not come from me. Perhaps from DreamTr.

 

Kensaiken, why'd you even give him positive feedback? That pretty much ruined your chances of getting any sort of refund. Any buyer in their right mind only leaves feedback once they've received the item and have tested it and made sure everything's OK.

You're just disappointed about the fact it's a translation beta and not an early JP proto with gameplay differences, but either way what you got still is what's considered a beta, so you haven't been wronged at all and really have no case here unfortunately. It's your fault for not inquiring more, if the seller gives zero detail on exactly what is different, then you should not worry but rather EXPECT that there will likely be no huge differences from the final release. Especially if it's not a prototype from the games origin(Japan) but rather something in English(which would be a localization, whicharen't usually the ones with differences since they're made after the final Japan release, though there have been exceptions in the past). Saves yourself the trouble and your money, since the seller 99% of the time won't likely share much more information with you about the game and its differences, so it's usually always going to be a gamble.

This also brings up my pet peeve about people calling things beta, no matter what stage of development a prototype is. Beta is usually the term for when a game is in its final stages and they're ironing out the bugs. All of the earlier revisions with material deleted from the final release are what's considered alpha. I suspect the wide mis-use of the term beta is what helps some sneaky proto sellers get away with selling stuff for lots of money, since the minute anyone sees the word beta they instantly dream up what kind of huge differences the thing has from the final released game.

Basically any fair proto sellers who truely have no time or means to figure out what exactly they're selling should just say so and at most label what they've got a "prototype", instead of giving it any sort of developmental period titling i.e alpha, beta, review/final/whatever else I'm forgetting." And anybody buying protos of any sort should know all of this and be fully aware of what they're buying. Unfortunately for kensaiken, he probably fell for the "it's a beta" trap and didn't give it a second thought.

Well, now you see how much that costs you :x

 

Just my two cents after reading the first post: just happened to me, and even high-resolution pictures of each fucking side of the game with related description (all publicly viewable on the auction's page) didn't help. I wrote over four pages of evidence of the buyer being a scammer (it's not his first time), and the scammer was asked for evidence of my damaged game on a gaming forum. He doctored/stole some pics of another game, cropped them down to the maximum and provided them to eBay as proof of me shipping unprotected. He then changed his story to "the game was already damaged before shipping" and he added that the chip inside the cartridge on the pcb had fallen off.

You'd think even dumbBay and dumbPal would laugh at this right? Well of course they didn't, they asked me to refund the game and shipping.

Just do yourself a favour, if you sell expensive games on eBay, don't accept PayPal unless you know the buyer personally or through forums/websites/etc. I got over 5 retracting bidders on the same auction and wasn't fast enough to block them.

It's amazing the shit buyers can pull out, they can even contradict themselves in the dispute, they WILL win anyway. Don't accept PayPal if possible, that's the only way to protect yourself from the buyer's protection system (aka buyer's scamming system).

I spent literally hours providing proof to eBay and PayPal that the guy was a jerk, it didn't help, they don't even give you a reason for their decision, they just ask you to refund even shipping. What a joke. PayPal is digging their own grave if they keep on giving incentives to scammer-buyers.

And for those who think the buyer really needs to send the item back -> lol, all PayPal will check is that there is a tracking number from the buyer's address to the seller's address. It will be an empty envelope or another item, they don't give a crap.

And yes of course I shipped tracked and provided them working links and lots of pictures and screenshots.

They don't care, buyers win. Either don't use PayPal, or just as a buyer, or as a seller for small amounts (less than 100usd). There's no way around it, just wait till eBay and PayPal end up like the Titanic.

 

one thing the guy did not even sent the item back after PayPal refunded the item.
anyway.
so i am at a loss so how can i be a scammer.

 

Question, How come nobody has tried launching a class auction law suit at paypal over this? I'm sure there's got to be some legal wiggle room to get one going.