If you want to invent a new use of the term "RGB", one that nobody else in the world understands or uses, you go ahead. As far as the rest of us are concerned what you are saying is wrong. End of discussion.
Component Video aka Color Difference is not RGB. SNES and Sega Genesis output RGB. you cannot hook them up to a TV using Component Video. You would need to run the RGB into a encoder to encode it into Color Difference/Component format and then feed that to the TV which then is just going to decode it. Component Video showed up in America so late that it's barely worth mentioning as the adoption of Digital TVs and LCDs happened shortly after. While you could hunt down a decent CRT with Component Video, if you want to use RGB you'll need to get an adapter. This is all just so dumb considering the TV should require minimal circuitry/cost to have RGB input.
I am fully with Alchy, and I am not an expert on the topic by any means, but I guess I got the point that angelwolf is missing: He is missing the fact that these signals are still analog and lossy, so there is no perfect signal for a color. Which means - even if there is a way to calculate the missing colors 100% mathematically correct - the error of the lossy signal will cumulate (and degrade the final image). And thats why you will never ever need to buy gold-plated plugs for hdmi. ninn.
angelwolf, we're saying that RGB carries a specific definition. YPbPr is NOT "RGB" because YPbPr is called "YPbPr". Draw a circle. now draw two circles inside it, that don't touch each other - so it looks like a face with two eyes. Everything inside the big circle shall be labeled component. Everything inside the two smaller circles shall be labeled RGB and YPbPr, respectively. "Component" is a designation, NOT a definition. "Component" is included within the definitions of RGB and YPbPr, but does not DEFINE them.
Nevermind. How about back on-topic? -- I recently purchased a Comodore 1084 Monitor, intended use: RGB Tate Shmupping. :dance: To try the monitor out, I plugged my PAL Turbografx and PAL NES into the composite-input. It worked like a charm, and gave a very good image. Even the sound was not that bad! At home, I wanted to try my NTSC NES with it, to test it for 60hz suitability ... but it just gave me a black & White picture, like most of my TV-Sets do. I was confused. I am pretty sure, I got the answer for my questions, but let me give them to you guys, since it fits the topic so perfectly: So, the question is: In case of my Monitor, is there just a NTSC 'decoder' missing, and - even thou NTSC did not work: RGB at 60hz may work? Just like 50hz RGB. Ninn :shrug: p.s.: I can't wait to see my first selfmade-RGB-Console/Monitor-Combination. Just ordered the last needed DIN8-plug to build an RGB cable for my Genesis. I am so curious!
Can't comment on that specific monitor, but it sounds like the monitor accepts PAL over encoding but not NTSC. NTSC should work perfectly fine over RGB because it's neither PAL nor NTSC - it's RGB. That's definately what most of us did 15 years ago when TVs accepting NTSC input were uncommon in the UK.
The 1084 requires a sync. You can't just feed it RGB and expect it to work. Sync comes from composite. In Europe, that's 50Hz. In America, that's 60Hz. European monitors sync at 50Hz. ...hence why I said if you go down the Amiga monitor route, buy a monitor WHEN YOU GET THERE ;-) You may get lucky and find one that will sync to 60Hz here, but I haven't seen it in the ones I tested years ago. Incidentally, NES doesn't give out RGB - that's why you get black and white. You're trying to put an NTSC picture (composite, I assume) into a PAL monitor, and the colour frequency is, naturally, off.
.... this sounds really odd, retro. :shrug: Does'nt the Sync come from the RGB-Signal itself (and not the monitor)? Your posting sounds like my monitor (or, all monitors in europe) are fixed to one frequency, and that is 50hz. Maybe you got an error, and you ment 'PAL format' when you said "European monitors". I am pretty sure my Monitor will accept 60hz RGB signals, even thou it would not accept NTSC. And I hope that most of my (european) TVs with SCART input will accept this 60hz RGB signals too, like some other posters sugested in the previous pages. At least I hope so :crying: ninn
RGB does NOT carry sync. Try connecting JUST the RGB lines from your games console (SCART pins 7, 11 and 15) and see what happens. Oh, you can have ground, too ;-) The sync comes from composite EVEN for RGB. NTSC will sync at 60Hz, PAL will sync at 50Hz. I forgot you weren't the OP (therefore, your question isn't really getting back OT but asking a new question ). By European monitors, I meant monitors in Europe, specifically the UK (where I am from) and Germany (where Ave is from). No, I didn't mean PAL monitors, I meant European monitors. PAL monitors could run PAL 50Hz or PAL 60Hz, but most European monitors will be 50Hz, as most European countries use 50Hz, be it PAL or SECAM. Back to your black and white issue. You aren't running your NES in RGB - it's impossible. You must be running it in composite (or RF, but the 1084 doesn't have an RF connector). Composite relies on the standard to get colour information: PAL uses 4.43361875 MHz for colour information. NTSC uses 3.579545 MHz for colour information. Your PAL monitor is sitting there looking for colour information on 4.43361875 MHz. Your console is giving it out on 3.579545 MHz. Therefore, the monitor receives no colour information, and you see black and white. Is that really so confusing? It's just like radio - if your local station broadcasts on 93.1 FM and you're tuned into 95.0 FM, you're not going to hear anything. Some Commodore monitors do 60Hz, some do not. I think there were some 1084 models that did (possibly the 1084s), and some that did not. I'm fairly sure the 1085 didn't.
The PAL-/NES-issue is perfectly clear to me, you explained it very well. :thumbsup: It just got me thinking about RGB on 50hz and 60hz. I guess I confused you. But thanks for your explanation! But I am / was confused about RGB. What would happen if I connected just RED, BLUE and GREEN (and Ground ) to a rgb-capable device? It would work, I guess! I thought the Sync-signal is a must. :-0 So this is what sRGB, RGsB and RGBHV stands / is good for! :dance: Did I get it right this time? ninn
If you just connected Red, Blue, Green and Ground to the monitor, you will get nothing because RGB carried over Scart relies on Composite sync. RGsB used sync-on-green, as does Component video. RGBHV has it's own separate sync. These latter two are really unrelated to any discussion about Scart, though.
Yes, as mentioned it simply doesn't have a decoder section for NTSC. The old TV I have here is the same (B&W on NTSC, colour on RGB 60Hz). In the TV's instruction manual it mentions the NTSC module was an optional extra ("for the playback of American standard VHS tapes"). You could maybe run the signal through something like a DVD recorder, which will convert the output to RGB (I think the Panasonic models can be set permanently to 60Hz RGB). This is also an easy way to convert any monitor or PVM into a TV! Plus you gain a few extra sockets in the process. IIRC most of the Commodore monitors were manufactured by Philips, and very good they were too. I think they're getting a bit long-in-the-tooth nowadays (20-odd years old by now). Some newer 14" PVM's (with Component/ RGBS / S-Video inputs as standard) can be found for little money.
My amiga monitors (Philips cm8802 & commodore 1085s) work fine with NTSC RGB signals (saturn, pc-engine, mega drive, ps2). Maybe you just endet up with the wrong cable or so?
Well his issue is that he's not connecting using RGB, he's connecting using Composite. I'm pretty sure you can't even get RGB from a Nes without serious modding.
Yes, a NES needs to be upgraded with the chip of a VS. NES/FC arcade game. It's the only way to make it work. The "RGB" the French NES can do is basically just a composite signal and not really RGB..
Without wanting to go too off-topic, destroying arcade boards for the sake of adding RGB to a Nes doesn't sound like something that should be encouraged.
