Saturn Shen-Mue & other unreleased Saturn talk

Well, I thought it would be a bit of a waste so since this thread had already drifted in to various other Saturn unreleased chat I decided to stick it in here. I should have held off on posting that Sonic shot. that would have been funny to see everyone go wild over it :lol: Then again you know what some of those guys are like in the Sonic Community. They'd probably take everything out of hand by producing a crap load of new rumours and how one of them actually owns the prototype that the above shot was from !

Yakumo

 

Hehehe sorry. I guess no more Fighters Megamix inspired shots, as all the characters are shown in the movie I linked to. hehe. You can delete my post and we can pretend I never spoiled the fun

 

probably because of its close connection to Shen Mue (Virtua Fighter RPG etc) and the fact that both Vf3 and ShenMue were extremely ambitious to be realized on SEGA Saturn at the time, and because we care (this last one was just random, don't pay any mind )

 

I didn't even need to engage my brain to work out that Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 screen was fake - at least you could have used the actual VF3 desert stage as it appears in Fighters Megamix!

 

Err, I'm not sure what you mean there. I did use a VF3 stage as it apears in Fighters Mega mix.

yakumo

 

I've always considered Jeffry's beach stage in Fighters Megamix to be more based on its Virtua Fighter 2 incarnation as opposed to the VF3 version, though since it uses the same music as in VF3 it's possible this could have been intended as a second VF3 recreation level - along with the desert, which doesn't even have the right track playing (for some reason, it's using the attract screen theme)!

Does anybody else think these two levels in Fighters Megamix could be a good indication of what we should have expected from Saturn Virtua Fighter 3? The second revision might have looked a little better (since it had basic polygonal backgrounds reinserted by then), but in terms of resolution and character model detail it seems this is close to what AM2 were probably working towards in terms of visual quality. Of course, the frame rate was half that of Megamix. Still, for the uneducated I guess that wouldn't be too bad for a hoax - I may even have falled for it myself, had I seen it a few years back!

 

I'm pretty Sure what you see in Fighters Mega Mix is probably what AM2 were looking at for he first port of VF3 to Saturn. Even the character's cloths are from VF3 ! That Sonic the Fighters level is defiantly what the game would have looked like I think. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if it was directly lifted from the completed scrapped game.



Yakumo

 

Plus the fact that Janet from Virtua Cop 2 has Aoi's moves from Virtua Fighter 3 and you can find Jeffry's BGM as one of the audio tracks. Ingame it plays at the training stage I think.

P.S. - Oh, Anthaemia already mentioned the music. I can't really remember if it plays on Jeffry's stage when you play the game. I think it played the VF2 verion of his theme. It's been a while since I played this game though.

 

The music for Jeffry's stage is indeed (the remixed version of) his Virtua Fighter 2 theme, but his VF3 track does play for the training arena. Also, there's absolutely no doubt that Fighters Megamix incorporates elements from the Saturn conversions of VF3 and Sonic The Fighters. However, to say that Megamix was compensation for the non-appearance of those games is totally wrong as the former wasn't even completed in its "first revision" until July 1998 - three months after the PAL release of Megamix! In addition to Digital Dance Mix, it's more reasonable to assume that AM2 intended for Megamix to serve as a gift to their loyal fanbase and a preview of things to come. I'm certain that Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 would have looked quite similar to how the desert stage appeared in Megamix, while there's no doubt Sonic The Fighters was probably quite similar to Fighting Vipers/Megamix.

Then again, what really intrigues me is what was changed between the initial cancelling of Saturn VF3 and Yu Suzuki's decision to overhaul the game in a second bid for approval. If the rumours are true, AM2 pulled out all the stops to create the best technical showcase of the Saturn's true power since... well, their work-in-progress that was later to become Shenmue! Why such a brilliant piece of software can be allowed to just sit and rot is a mystery to me - providing it really was that good, of course! On the other hand, could it have been any worse than Genki's rush-job? Had they not been so determined to pursue what ultimately proved to be a waste of their resources and time, we could all be playing a truly pixel-perfect AM2 conversion on the Dreamcast by now!

P.S. If it's true that Megamix was little more than a taster of future AM2 projects for the Saturn, does anybody think the chip-generated orchestral music at the end of one course (shame I haven't got a copy of the game for reference so I could be a little less vague) might actually be the first real preview of Shenmue in its original Saturn guise as well? Also, could somebody provide screenshots from the Akira tech demo that came with the SGL OS 3.02 sample files? I'd love to see if this will provide a missing link between how he looked in VF2, Megamix and perhaps even VF3. Finally, I thought most of the VF characters in Megamix only had their second game outfits - seems I'll have to check up on that again...

 

Honestly i think the dreamcast was a project sega put together real quick and by the time it was finished the am2 team was probably still deep into saturn development. At this point shenmue was possibly getting close to the debug stage. With all the hard work they put into shenmue at the time they probably werent ready to just drop the project on saturn.

Sega themselves probably wanted a dreamcast port of vf3 but am2 trying to make the sautrn one ontop of shenmue referred them to genki since some of the staff were former am2 members up till virtua fighter 2. But honestly with all these talks about 2 versions of them being produced, was there ever a source at all or anyone that was interviewed that stated this information about a 2nd version exisisting?

Cause kikizo or aniother site had an interview with an am2 member who stated that he was never aware of it exisisting, but did acknowledge about hidden character models in fighting vipers as they often would put in some as sorta of a goof.

 

AM2 has a reputation for including well-hidden bonus characters in its games, particularly Fighting Vipers. The arcade version not only has the original Sonic and Tails models that led to the full development of Sonic The Fighters, but Sonic Team director Takashi Iizuka! You can find out more about these at:

http://xcult.sonic-cult.org/dispart.php?catid=1&gameid=2&subid=1&artid=1

Also, there is a "super-deformed" version of Honey/Candy from Fighting Vipers in Sonic The Fighters, though I'm not sure if this extra was featured in the arcade. However, since the console editions are simply ports of the Model 2b original I've no reason to believe it's not possible to access this somehow. Once again, there's a few screenshots and further information here:

http://www.sonic-cult.org/dispart.php?catid=4&gameid=2&subid=1&artid=7

A lot has been said here about the Saturn prototype of Shenmue recently, but incredibly this game is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to abandoned projects from AM2. For example, did you know that in addition to a Virtua Fighter RPG featuring Akira (which later evolved into Shenmue) Yu Suzuki also planned to create another spin-off featuring Sarah and Jacky from the series? Apart from its codename very little else is known about this project, though it's reasonable to assume various elements from "Chicago" such as music and stage designs were incorporated into the arena that can only be accessed in Virtua Fighter 2 when both of these characters are selected. There were also plans for a driving simulator with role-playing mechanics, though once again it's probably not too hard to imagine how this could have become F355 Challenge...

I wasn't aware that many of Genki's members were former AM2 staff - I was under the impression most of the post-VF2 breakaway programmers formed KSS, the group responsible for Anarchy In The Nippon. Based on their output, though, it's not unlikely. Genki seems like it was more the driving side of AM2, as its fighting output (VF3tb included) seems rather weak in comparison. I presume that new AM2 producer Hiroshi Kataoka was always part of the core Virtua Fighter development team. Come to think of it, does anybody know what happened to Keiji Okayasu (sp?) and whether he had anything to do with Saturn VF3? He was the main programmer of VF and its sequel on the Saturn, so if anybody knows how well the third game would have turned out then he's probably our best bet.

P.S. The first real mention of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 having two separate revisions was in the SegaBase article, though I can definitely recall hearing about the existence of a second complete build long before even that. As well as being demonstrated backstage at the 1998 Tokyo Game Show, it might also have appeared in a similar manner during the 1998 ECTS, but as of yet I'm still trying to find out if this happened for certain. There are many UK journalists - most linked to EMAP and its official Sega Saturn Magazine - who have seen the game in action but are limited to what they can say by still-existing non disclosure agreements. This is because they were shown the game long after it had been turned down for a release, and Sega clearly has no plans to change its stance now or in the future. Besides, why should anybody want a supposedly inferior conversion so badly when there's already the Dreamcast game commercially available? Videogame companies just don't seem capable of understanding how we collectors tick!

 

Intresting. Well if suzuki is like kojima then we might never get to see this version of virtua fighter 3. Cause i do remember that konami of america was going to try a 2nd attempt at translating poliecenauts for at least ps1, however he turend it down since he felt a bit close to the project and was a bit sadden how it failed to get fully translated before as well as it most likely not selling in the us.

I have feeling like shenmue, yu suzuki probably is a bit let down by not being able to release the saturn version of virtua fighter 3. Still i find it odd that they bothered to finally show footage of saturn shenmue on shenmue 2. You think theres any possibility we could see footage of this game on vf5 for ps3?

 

The reason we got to see that footage of Shenmue in its 32-bit incarnation is because it was never cancelled, only brought over from Saturn to Dreamcast. As for the conversion of Virtua Fighter 3 for the Saturn, I doubt we'll ever have anything official from this game since AM2 - and Yu Suzuki in particular - still feels burned by the whole situation. Everyone involved worked hard, and especially with the second revision they produced something no other developer ever managed with the Saturn. Besides, we all know that AM2 could have reproduced VF3 pixel-for-pixel on the Dreamcast. However, since the core team was desperately trying to update its Saturn hardware showcase to the point where it may be good enough for release, AM2 could only supervise when it came to Genki's treatment of their game. Like most companies in the videogame industry, Sega is both notoriously tight when it comes to leaking prototypes or cancelled software and known its employees sneaking the occasional gem out of its studios.

Considering how secretive these AM2 games were at the time of their production, though, I doubt we'll see much more... if anything of VF3! Finally, there's not really much point releasing anything from the Saturn conversion of Sonic The Fighters as we've now got the near-perfect Gems Collection port and the elements featured in Fighters Megamix. If anything, Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 might appear some day in yet another history video to showcase the console's real potential - just don't expect anything playable unless Saturn emulation is perfected or Sega has the (unlikely) idea of pressing a one-off title in the future...

P.S. There is also the even more unlikely possibility that Suzuki may think about releasing what had been completed of the later-to-become Shenmue for Saturn if there's no other way Sega will allow his series to be concluded faithfully to his original vision on a more recent system. After all, if the game was half as finished as rumours suggest it would only need to lose the debug counters and maybe add some voiceovers - perhaps they could just use what was later recorded for the Dreamcast game as a cost-cutting measure, or was the character speech already captured but yet to be implemented?

 

I've just talked to some guy saying he has (take a seat please);

-Shenmue (6 cd's)
-Fighting Force
-Miracle (Hudsonsoft)
-Sonic Xtreme

Now, there's a chance he's bullshitting (and judging from the list of titles, you'd say he just escaped from the mad house) but I'm seriously feeling this guy actually has them.

Damn I'm jealous. Think I'll kill him

 

Sure he does Ask for some proof

 

Pfft, I have those. They're in the passenger seat of my Lamborghini, baking in the sun. :110:

Seriously, though, how would someone manage to get hold of titles like those?

 

It's not some guy on a Dutch Sega board is it ? It's bull shit. how on earth can he have Shenmue ? This guy said that it doesn't even look as good as the video show on the end of Dreamcast Shenmue 2. I'm calling a major BS on this one !

Yakumo

 

Actually yes it is. You've read it?

But seriously, this guy has did have proof for several other stuff (Like a green this cool skeleton saturn). I'm not ruling out the possibility he actually has them.

 

you do know that with the right lighting you can make the black one look green. I'm not saying there isn't a green one but justthat it is possible to fake. I remember someone here make a load of different coloured skeleton Dreamcast units that looked real. They were actually all photo shopped.

If it is true I'd expect to see picturesright away. If I had it I'd be plastering images and videos all over the place for people to see.

Yakumo

 

No, it was a promotion console, complete with campaign box. I should have the pictures somewhere..