Sega Saturn Copy Protection. Break it get $800

for me, i just use Mirage to EMU cd (hmm time to need backup [apcom ssf2 source data first)
people crack the ring or not, i'm not care( it just big size barcode burn in CAV mode , and can find it like 2 same barcode in ring, )

-sorry, i'm lazy-
Will I give it barcode to anyone? No. Why? Because I too believe that it is a bad idea. What do they hope to achieve from this? Can they not already copy their CDs? Yes they can, it is easy. Can they not already play copies? Yes, they can chip, use the swap method, or use a system disc. Will all Saturn games stop working if they don't crack this? NO. You will still be able to copy and play them as you have for the past 8 years or so.

 

Um lots of people, even I could probably copy one in less than a weeks time but not necessarily understand it. Tools necessary are: the internet for datasheets, either a oscilloscope or a multimeter with frequency readings (would be helpful) and a logic analyzer. The CPLD on the modchip is believe is a 32pin package so you need at least 32 channels x (bit x n clocks) A 32 channel LA will run you probably $10,000 or more used unless you can build your own or buy a DIY kit. Once you have logged enough data you can write yourself an algorithm or manually (how I'd do it) create truth tables and derive simple equations. If the device uses flipflops, hopefully A) the analyzer logged it already (it should have if you logged the entire Saturn boot. Depending on how much logic is crammed into the CPLD you'll have a harder time deducing the equations. Or you can just clone the "useful" part of the CPLD that you did log. This way, you're not creating a replica of the device but simply simulating whatever logic you understand is needed which is just as good, most of the time this is the only way you can do it.

 

I'm glad you understand all of that. You're like the friendly neighborhood chip expert .

 

Kyuusaku, I admit I'm not hugely into PIC chips and all... but back in the days of the Neo 2, I talked to the guy who copied it in England. He had to have it sent to Hong Kong to be chemically etched and placed under a microscope, as was said, to be examined. He said this is because it had anti-copying protection built in. Whether this is true or not, I don't know - but it is what he told me.

Nice guy, actually. Spent about half an hour on the phone to me having that conversation, all because I had a faulty product!

 

I don't know why I'm even saying CPLD, the modchip uses a PAL, GAL or PEEL, PAL/GAL are less complex than a PEEL, PEELs are just enhanced GALs, CPLD are many PEELs in a package. What your guy said is definately true, PIC are very different than PLD, both of them can be copy protected and cannot be read by a programmer. PLD are logic devices, they are just a matrix of AND gates, every clock they preform whatever logical operations they're programmed for. PICs are microprocessors, they contain a CPU, RAM and ROM all in one package the package's pins are just the CPU's I/O. It's rather impossible to copy a PIC with just a logic analyzer because their ROM is hidden behind the CPU and having access to the I/O get's you nowhere. Because PLD don't have ROM, just a AND fusemap, it's rather simple to recreate because all it does is AND stuff a bunch of times.

 

OK, I dug through my parts bin and found a Sat chip, it consists of a 4 resistors, a '157, PALCE 16V8 and a *EM78P156ELP* (like a PIC), so likely I really couldn't copy it. I thought that this chip was just some discrete logic :\ This does make the modchip a lot harder to copy unless the security bit wasn't set which is very unlikely AND theres the PAL. It might be that the MCU can't be protected and so they have the PAL there to throw off someone aiming to copy the chip.

Since nobody has studied the modchip, we don't know what the PAL does. It may only preform a few operations but PALCE can be quite complex and pack a punch or it could just preform like a legacy PAL.

 

The device does have a security bit which is likely set. So... the Saturn boot code really is in the modchip. I guess it's about time for someone to make it open source like PSX! To me that's more important than burning a CD-R with the boot code.

 

It'll probably be the same code I've got I'm not even sure where that disc is now!!!

Anyway....

Your mod sounds similar to mine, but maybe not identical. Here is a picture of mine:

 

This is the same kind as what I have (thanks Jandaman for the pic)
It must use the Saturn's clock for the CPLD and '157. It might be that my MCU is compatible with PIC and we literally have the same code. Mine might be a Microchip substitute.

Edit: I just noticed that in Janda's pic I can see the Microchip emblem, so my "EMC" MCU must be compatible. I believe I do have a programmer capable of reading a 16C54 but because I trimmed off the MCU's protruding pins, once I desolder it, it's not going back in. I'm not willing to do it because of the super small chance that the security bit isn't set.

 

what chip doing for?

 

You have the PIC code?

 

i have try copy PIC16C54 but it ready lock , any be my programmer tool too old

 

Yes definately they're protected but it's still possible with some serious skills. I wonder why PSX source is available but nobody has released Saturn :\ No matter what, your programmer cannot read a protected device ;(

 

my friend have PIC 1:1 copy programmer tool, but it did not support save to files

 

it can copy protected PIC? I wonder how.

 

1. for bocken PIC, it need cut off top button ( you can see some pin is cut inside and need relink back), and than 1 by 1 pin to PIC EMU board.,,,than. press "copy" button
it will auto test all input and out put, so need time to do....6-X hour
2. for locked PIC press "copy" button
it will auto test all input and out put, so need time to do....6-XX hour

 

How can he relink the broken fuse? It's so small...

 

because he is lingjr

if you have the input command it can let you early get the out put.
so you can easy re program it to new chip

 

I nearly bought a PIC copier once... I doubt it'd do protected chips, though.

No, not the PIC code (although I think I did see it once). I have some code from Sega which apparently had to go on CDs. If it wasn't, the Saturn wouldn't recognise the CD. That's all I remember as a description.