The poor man is deluded beyond belief the Duel shock for example isn't an industry standard, if anyone even tried to standardise it Sony would rip them apart, it might be the most well known however. His argument remember is the it's 3d Real-Time so I'm unsure if Wolfenstein could be counted but I totally agree with everyone here about this ridiculous claim being totally insane. Their controller claim is utter PR no doubt about it's so true about the boomerang espcially if it's contrasted with Harrisons crap.
What are these "Feilds of green" you're talking about? Coherence please? Um, no. If you use someone else's source code and profit on its use you'll be taken to court. Id Software have publicly released the source code to several of their games over the years for non-profit use, you try selling a game compiled from that "meaningless" data and they'll see you in court. Changing it just slightly will still land you in trouble. Again, no. You're not getting the idea of patents. Microsoft was taken to court over using a rumble feature inside their pads by Immersion when the original Xbox came out, and they settled out of court back in 2003. Sony is still fighting it, you can read about it here. If someone else has patented an idea/innovation and you steal it and profit from it, they have every right to take you to court. Afraid not, I can't find one.
The first 3d game, that's a hard one to pin down. I remeber a game called "Way out" on my old Atari 800 that was a first person maze game, used non-textured blue polygons and had a "thief" that was a flashing polygon. Vector games I don't think qualify as 3D in the same way that rendered polygons do, but certain games did have somewhat of a "3D world" by use of vectors. I really don't know myself what the first computer game to use 3d rendered polygons was, I'm sure it was probably some time in the early 90s, maybe Alone in the dark, Decent, Doom? Wolfenstien 3D used flat 2D sprite objects for characters while the enviroments were flat textured polygons, kind of a mix I suppose. As far as console gaming with polygons, didn't Starfox Snes come out before Ps1?
Wolfenstien 3d did not use polygons. It was a method called raycasting. In a sense you fire a ray off from the camera to the wall for every vertical line of your resolution (so if the pc/tv resolutin is 320x240, you process 320 rays). When the ray intersects a wall, you calculate the distance it travled and what vertical line it hit based on the grid. This gives you the information you need to draw a vertical line of pixels for that ray. Doom & others do something simular but much more complex.
What are you talking about Wolfenstein 3d was in a 3d enviorment at one point was sophisticated. The enemies are all drawn out or Sprites like guy said with flat panel bodies like Mr. Game & Watch only facing you 24/7 of the time . About this ray casting would this be the same feature used in Mario Kart with the Thomp Womps and passing racers on SNES? When I play Doom and Wolfenstein both games is same game engine using the same setup only diffrent sprites. Still I agree that these games are no diffrent then the 3d maze screen saver in windows.
Yeah but uses a somewhat simular concept. You cast rays from the camera till you hit the floor surface to determin the scaling rate for the floor (usualy 4 rays). I worked on 1 comercial kart racer for gba.
the NES controller is the "standardized" controller of the industry, since it was the controller that introduced the horizontal positioning and the D-pad (unlike the joystick approach) to the wider commercial audience. Mr.Harrisson fails to realize how piracy was the main reason behind the first PlayStation's success and a great part of the second one.
Ahhh, interesting. You learn something new everyday. So I take it all the fps games of that generation used this same technique (doom, hexen, duke nuk'em, etc.) So what was the first fps to use an enviroment of actual polygons? Quake I? Dark Forces?
Hexen is using the doom engine. Duke nukem is of simular concept but applies different techniques then doom. Quake 1 I believe was the first (but i could be wrong on that).
Pre-rendered. Depending on what Sony's claim really means, (polygons? sprites in 3d expression?) I think it's obvious -- they only pushed, not invented. From what I understand, this is not the first time they've made this claim in a large forum.
He obviously means realtime texture mapped 3d on a games console, if you insert those words then it makes more sense. He should have been more explicit, but he is only likely to talk about games consoles & everyone knows the big thing PlayStation brought to the party was realtime texture mapping. If we're not allowed to interpret what he said, then you kinda lose at the outset. He never says that Sony invented 3d, they introduced 3d. He then goes on to say that it's as stupid as saying that Nintendo stole Sony's idea. This whole thread is based on what you said about a quote extracted from an interview. If you want to argue about specifics then PlayStation was in development for quite a few years, FX1/32x/The Saturn's switch from 2d to 3d/N64 all came after everyone realised what Sony was doing. Nintendo were still pretending they were big enough to mess around either of the two companies that could give them cd technology. You can trace the PlayStation design back further than the deal with Nintendo, but it wasn't a games console at that point but a 3d video effects module. I don't recall the FX1 or 32x having any texture mapped games either. The Saturn launched before the PlayStation, but remember neither the wii or ps3 has launched yet, so we're talking about who came up with the idea first & not who shipped first. It's widely documented that Sega retrofitted 3d onto the Saturn when they realised how badly they were going to get spanked by Sony. Most of the comments on that article are mis-informed: "Nintendo made 3d chips available to Sony for their new playstation SNES addon." Nope. Nintendo didn't have any 3d chips. They had to license an old SGI design for the N64. They had trouble getting anyone at SGI to work on the design, because it was a toy. So they had to put out pre-rendered footage made on real SGI workstations while Sony were selling the PlayStation. Nintendo were so bad at designing chips that they got Sony to design their sound chip. "Actually 3d graphics were implemented first on a video game by Sega, in Virtua Racing in 1992 for the arcades." If you're allowed to go out of the console market then Nintendo didn't invent motion sensing controllers either. Staying in the console market then Samba da Amigo has motion sensors, so Nintendo copied them off Sega ( wait we aren't allowed to say bad things about Nintendo, only Sony. Sorry ). "It may be the "industry standard" simply because the PS2 sold the most units." We have a winner, isn't that the definition of an industry standard? Thats how Microsoft managed it anyway. You can't change the rules so that Nintendo invented everything and Sony invented nothing, unless you are Sony haters but then it's pretty pointless having any form of discussion. You might as well say that Sony are rubbish because they smell of wii. smf
The issue of motion sensitivity and the Sony theft of course is argurable out of the current context but within context we must look at the current market situation. Motion Sensitivity of course wasn't invented by Nintendo nor implement first in consoles the following is my opinion. Basically in terms of genuine motion sensors I'm sure both consoles and arcade games/systems beat out the Wii however I can all but guarantee that Nindento is the first console to implement in its standard (and as a necessary part of) Controller to any resonable extent. Now hype and interest has being slowly building around the Wii mostly due to this feature which promises something somewhat fresh. People begin to associate the Wii and it's motion crazy motion-sensitive remote with Nintendo. Then at E3 where there's almost no doubt that Nintendo recieved the most interest for its risky new tactic (Motion Sensitivity is an Exception not a Rule in consoles). Suddenly Sony shows up and starts attempting to awe people with it's rumbleless controller with a basic motion sensor setup which seems to have little practical use (The Wiimote is designed with many uses where as the PS Controller is clearly not intended for movement). Then Sony starts throwing around claims of having this in R&D for many, many years, this fails to cover the bad PR created by this attempt at stealing what, at the current time, is associated purely with Nintendo. To cap it off no one should rightly be claiming that Nintendo is the first but in the current industry conditions there's little denying that they're at least tempting something different. Beside all that the Wiimote is being implmented in many things, how many games use the Samba stuff?
This is like the Apple vs Microsoft GUI case. Apple: You stole GUI's from us. Microsoft: We both stole them from Xerox, you're just pissed that we stole it first. Eye Toy is associated with PS2 and thats used for motion sensing. No it's not the standard controller, but that invalidates the FX1 & 32x argument about 3d. Bickering about who came up with the idea first is pointless. All we know is that Nintendo made a big thing about it before Sony did. You really care about that? For all we know the games on the wii are rubbish, has anyone here played any games on one yet? I'd like to know what it's like. I've seen some very good videos made by Nintendo showing off the wii controller, they made some very good videos of the quality of graphics the N64 would have too. There must be something wrong with my TV because the videos Nintendo put out never looked as blurry as the games do on my tv. I thought Nintendo were only just providing controllers to developers? Sony are probably doing the same thing. Hence the one week before E3 thing, which doesn't even begin to imply "when" the controllers were made available by Sony, the developers might just not have gotten round to adding support for them. I believe game developers don't just sit round all day thinking about what would be nice to code, I might be wrong on that. You can't even begin to work out when Sony started designing it. I'll wait until I see how good it actually is when it's launched. Rather than trying to extrapolate from the videos whether what some actors are doing with them, is actually anything like what the games are really like. smf
Hello People, i´m reading this forum very often and i see that many here dont like Sony´s concept of the PS3 ;-) But sorry, i have a different opinion. The Price: Yes, its very high. Too high for most to buy it after the first days of release. Lets Remember: In the (next gen) videogame history, almost all "high price" Systems became a "fast death"... 3DO, Saturn etc... The Playstation2 was high priced too when it was released but the price was not as high like for the PS3. The Price is the biggest Problem for the PS3 i think. I can remember that the Situation before the release of the PS2 was like the Situation now. Many Gamers didnt "like" the PS2. But everyone know what Status the PS2 have now in Videogame History. (i dont own a PS2 ;-) and i´m not Sony "friendly", but not Nintendo "friendly" too. ) I think the biggest difference betwen Wii and PS3 is not the Price. Its the Conecpt. Nintendo wants to sell a "gaming-system". Sony an "Entertainment System". Heh, thats funny because big N called their System like that before ;-). But the meaning of "Entertainment" in Videogames changed in the last years. Its not "only" Gaming. But i´m sure everyone of you reading this forum know that. The Question is now, which Concept will be more accepted? From what i´ve read Sony wants to bring the owner of a PS3 more than Gaming, like Video, Music and, i was thinking that its the right way (if Nintendo saied that, it would be great too!!), a worldwide Community and many more online contents. Like Myspace. I read an Interview of a german Sony employee that they are very interested in the Concept of Myspace... Yes, at this time there are services in Games like that, or which have names like that. But i think that this is not the end of the line. There are more and better ways to bring gamers together... and Sony and Microsoft are the only Producers who can bring up a working Online Service for their Systems. I think Nintendo cant do it and dont want it. The Controller stealing: Of course, they stealed the Concept. But some weeks after release of the Systems, no one is interested in that anymore. It will be a great new improvement to the Videogame-Culture to interact with the System by moving your Controller so it will become a standard for all. Thats my opinion. Maybe i´m wrong but we will see. My Last words: I think that its in this time not enough to design a "gaming only" system. Many People own a PS2 because of the DVD functions. Maybe many People will buy a PS3 because of the Entertainment Functions of this System with high Quality Video, impressive Games (Ok, at this time there is only the GFX impressive but i´m sure that there will be some nice gameplays too ;-) and thats maybe the point why the Wii will failure: The GFX.), new gaming because the (stealed) Controller-Functions and the upcoming Community/Online Services with Coolness Factor guaranteed. Before many People hate me now because of this PS3 friendly posting: I own many older systems like GameGear, MegaDrive, Snes and Saturn (I bought it for about 599DM / 300€ when it was released and i think its the best VG-System ever :nod: ), but iam wondering why so many people "hate" the PS3 before its released... Lets see which is the better System, i think they have all the potential ;-) :thumbsup: (Sorry for my bad english)
