lol, you can't play like that with Wario because you can't do all that stuff in Brawl. they took all that stuff out. what makes melee deep wasn't intentional. yeah, well, that's your opinion.
Super Smash Bros might look cute but it's one hell of a game if you pull your head out of your proverbial ass. One should approach all games with an open mind and pass judgment only if one has achieved a certain status within that game - you have to be at least a "good" player to have any credible opinion. It's a known fact that we don't like games we suck at, like I do with SFIV - but I m doing my best, watching videos etc, to get into it, I didn't turn around and say "fuck it, it sucks shit anyway". I was expecting some better replies to be honest, you can dislike something and still consider it good you know, no one will think you're weak.
Damn, that video is insane! I can do most of the advanced techs, but I can't pull them off that fast. It used to piss me off when people would shit on Melee, and act like it wasn't a viable fighting game. Then I just brushed it off, because most of the people who said that either never played it or were the kind of players who used items and thought an "advanced move" was throwing an item at someone, as they were falling, to kill them. I've spent a ton of time at the Smash World Forums looking up how to do advanced techs, watching movies, and practicing just to get to where I am now and I've still got plenty of room to improve. Melee is a pretty technical game, probably not intentionally, but damn... look how long it took for the game to mature to the point it is now. Too bad Nintendo nerfed brawl :noooo: Ever play SSB64 competitively? Ridiculously high hitstun = never ending combos
I don't consider players who play without any items on a flat surface such as final destination, with no morphing, true Super Smash Bros. players. A good player must embrace the entirety of the game. I can assure you though, it's not accidentally deep, the engine is bloody quick in a way that you can think and play almost as fast, unlike Brawl. Items play a big role because the speed, angle, distance, trajectory and hit percentage play a major role in strategizing, essentially often counting probability percentages before taking item-related risks (i.e explosive crates and their 33% chance of appearance). Quick-stats make your brain go all sort of crazy when you're playing with a good opponent. To the credit of Brawl, grabbing thrown items is much easier but it can get abusive by better players, making the offender to aim for the feet and not the body of the defender.
Oh yea. I used to play as Link and you could do work with his boomerang. And Kirby was just insane. And I agree it wasn't intentional. The designers didn't put wave dashing or L canceling in the game on purpose. You can't look in the manual or or do the tutorial and find out how to do these things. EDIT: playing with items seemed like it was a lot more fun in SSB64. in Melee i didn't find as fun. when we play it's 4 stock 8 minutes. we only play specific levels. playing without items takes out a lot of the randomness thus making it more competitive.
I think being able to react to real-time elements in real-time is a skill, hence produces more competitiveness- some unfairness is always more fun than absolute "box" competitiveness.
Try saying that on the Smash World Forums, where most all the experts and tournament players are, and you will get laughed out of there really fast.
That's exactly why taking SSB seriously is ridiculous: it wasn't ever meant to be played seriously, and the people who are memorizing "pro techniques" (mostly glitches in the game) and playing without items are just sucking all the fun out of it for themselves (Final Destination is the worst stage, items are great!).
I agree with 7Force. People can do whatever they want, but I think no items and strictly Final Destination is the most boring thing ever. I loved SSB, but when all it boiled down to whenever I played at Friends houses was Final Destination, no items.... What was the point? Items make the game more competitive. People that say the competition is more true without items since their is no random events such a pokeball falling out of the sky are the ones who cant take the pressure. They think its "unfair" and doesn't show true skill? What a joke. The best pros in the world should be playing Random maps with items on. Anybody that can still pull off tons of Advanced Techniques while getting the upper hand and using the correct items to their full potential would be the best in my mind. :banghead:
Hence why I never have and never will register at such forums. I don't need to discuss my fighting strategies or personal preference in public, I just play it because it makes me feel in control yet excited by the fact that there's always some other factor that *might* turn the tables - if I just play it right. I m willing to bet that I m a better player all around when items and all maps are considered than most folks in there. The glitches you talk about are nothing that can't be dealt with by someone who's been playing non-stop every weekend for the past 8 years. That said, to even think that a single player can beat *all* is just absurd. Players are known to adapt to their usual adversary's behaviour and vice-versa. Some of the "pro" players are only considered pro amongst themselves, they'd be caught up in complete surprise if playing against someone who's style/character they know nothing about. Items naturally further complicate this making it a real battle instead of just a pointless dick-wave in a barren landscape. amen to that brother
Yeah, isn't Smash Bros about total chaos and crap going on, seeing as it's 4 player? I think it would be more impressive with the funky ass items and stages. After sitting in on "pro" (stupid people pro, not actual pros) Smash Bros games at the college here, I never want to see Smash Bros Melee again. Christ.
To everyone who are knocking people who play Melee competitively, it's not like these people only play final destination with no items all the time. These same people also play random stages with items for fun, BUT as far as competition goes that's not how the game is played. You may think it's ridiculous that these people have crafted Melee into a competitive game, fine that's your opinion. The fact remains that it can, is, and will be played competitively by these people, and some of you so-called "hard core" fighter fans that scoff at this would probably give up trying to learn wave-dashing after not being able to do it the first time (and it's not even a hard advanced tech to learn, it just gets thrown out there a lot). The depth is there for those who want to go down that path, but don't knock it just because you can't or don't want to. Like I said, many of these same people also play for poops and giggles as well, with items on, picking random stages. They just happen to play it competitively too, and some people just don't seem to like it. Don't knock it just because you don't understand it, or rather don't want to understand it. And to anyone out there that does not know the advanced techniques and still thinks they can take on a pro level smasher if you turn on items and go to a stage that isn't Final Destination... good luck. It doesn't matter how long you've played, how well you know the arena, and how good you are with items, if you don't know the advanced techs and you are playing someone who does (especially someone who can execute them well), you will probably be killed before you can even pick up your first item. If you've never played someone who uses advanced techs, then you really have no clue what you are talking about.
YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!! The technique behind every object in Power Stone 2 and the methods in which you have to collect the power stones and all the crazy shit you have to do once you have all the power stones... zomgheadexplodedie!
I'm just... I'm just going to not...say anything in this thread... Jon. I know you're online probably here. Come take my keyboard away from me. Because...there's about 5 people in here I want to rage on because "items make it more competitive". It's not "pressure". It's not that it's "unfair". The point of removing items and playing on a flat level is something called BALANCE. What it does is put the game to it's core, and pit two players against each other and ONLY each other. As for tournaments Jon - There's small one's for HDremix around hurr I'm intending on trying to play at. xD As for as "final D being boring" and Items being more fun. That's subjective. I don't like items to ME, ITEMS SUCK THE FUN OUT. You can be kicking all kinds of ass, then someone gets a god damn Hammer and BAM you're fucked. You tell me THATS balanced? Or in Brawl, someone as fox gets the SMASH BALL. The tank takes up most of the levels, and you can just spin around and 1 hit KO someone. And when they respawn and they wait it out for them to fall down to the level you are STILL tank mode when their invincibility frames runs out. The smash ball+FOX in BRawl = 2 stock loss to everyone else. No ifs, ands, or butts. What kills Melee for me is the fucking people who play. i went to a smash tournament at my college and the players... ok, imagine the 13 year old halo brats on Xbox live. Now stick them in a 21 year olds body. And remove the anonymity. That's your average high Level smash players attitude.
You pretty much said everything i was going to say. the only levels we don't play are moving ones (big blue is a joke, we still play rainbow cruise though) and walk off levels (like flatzone or mushroom kingdom II). it's not Final D exclusively. Turn on items and random maps and you'll still get pooped on by advanced players. you won't even be able to hit a player with a pokeball. they'll just tech it right back in your face. :lol: anyways, i'm done with this discussion, what's been said has been said. everyone has the opinions about the game. play it however you want.
exactly, the only levels removed are RANDOM levels. Big Blue is random with the cars, however Mute City moves and but the cars have a pattern. Rainbow Cruise follows a Pattern, so does poke floats. Everyone assumes competitive players "No items, fox only, final destination" There's only a small handful of levels actually not played in tournaments. And those are because either they're random (big blue) or walk offs (flat zone) Jon's right, they'll just tech the pokeball. power shield at the right moment, BAM flies at you, smacks you and opens and it's turned against you. When Brawl was at Evolution (the biggeset fighting game tournament in the USA) they turned on items.
sorry for sounding like a dick, but why "balance" a game? I think a good player can deal with misfortune, even if that means that he'll have the occasional loss every now and then. Fact: You can't be unlucky all the time, contrary to most Smash players' claims when items are on. Either way, the only level we don't play on Melee is the Ice Climbers' one, the rest are kosher. I LOVE the stress that comes with the levels or an unfair advantage, it makes for a good surprise and you see how people can stand their own under stress - besides, all items have some weakness. I can dance around a hammer and knock a good player out of the ring if he dares to pick it up, most of the times, despite having a high % myself. You know it's possible, so why not risk the fun of ridiculing your friends for failing despite having a hammer? =) You ladies seem to forget that Super Smash Bros is at heart a complex kirby game, hence if you take away the moving/platforming it just makes it an easier fighting game. To me, the whole point of the series is the skill it takes to platform, manage throws AND fight. Anyway, I m not trying to change anyone's opinion, I m just glad I got a chance to discuss this with some "competitive" players. Where I play there's barely any competition..I m like the Greek Super Smash Bros Melee Zen Master, visit me at the top of the hill to receive your training btw: most of the the so-called Pro videos fail to impress me at a technique level despite them being on final destination and with no items. Winning in style is more satisfying than just winning. About Brawl: I m giving in to its slower charms and new items/levels, the level creator has given us the most value since we rarely play outside our own levels (usually involving a good amount of strategic platforming and hazards). All items are game except the smash-ball, which in my view is not well suited when playing duels.
That is really damn annoying, even just fucking around. I think the other Star Fox dude has some shit like that too. Wario is hilarious because usually whoever gets the fucking thing goes flying off the edge resulting in hilarity.
wow barcode. Did you decide to skip over the "NON FINAL DESTINATION" mentions? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM5QgoYiuvQ pro gameplay, moving level. Why balance the game? Because then if you lose it's because you're not as good as the other player, not because of luck or the game throwing him a bone. But you're open to your opinion.
