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Most of your points are valid, except for the poor games, I disagree. I think considering we only ever really got the first gen of DC games it's amazing how good most of them are.

Consumer apathy seems to be a pretty big one. 2 failed peripherals for the Megadrive, 1 failed console in the Saturn. Who'd trust Sega?

One reason that's not brought up often is Sega's reliance on new franchises. As much as I loved it, as a strategy, it's not a great moneymaker. Most people don't buy games unless they think they onto a surefire enjoyable experience, new franchises are always a bit of a risk. Most people also don't (or at least, didn't) read online about games first, so franchises are a good way for the masses to know what the game is going to be like. Sad truth, but that's probably how the majority of the buying public think.

There was also no high-selling killer app (name the Halo or GTA3 for the DC). The Sonic games were average at best, which is unforgivable.

Whenever a console can be called "ahead of its time", it can also sometimes be said that it "didn't do it properly". Sega's online stuff was definitely pioneering, but most people were on modem connections, it cost too much to dial up, and the service was often pretty sketchy. Compare that the something like Live! and it's no question which is superior. The VMU was a great idea, but under-utilised in the end because the amount of memory on each unit was too small to fit games in, and the screen was too low-resolution to make anything much of them anyway. Admittedly the developers could have made more use of it in-game, but I guess the DC wasn't around long enough.

I'm trying to highlight the bad points here by the way, I still love my DC and still buy games for it (got Jp Soul Calibur, Space Channel 5, and Bleemcast Tekken 3 all sealed the other day from Lik-sang for ~£2.90 each, bargain).

 

From the bussiness standpoint SEGA commited suicide...

PR was low to say the least, the vault was almost empty and the amount of cash sony was trowing into the market was just amazing at the time.

I think the best thing SEGA could do in that situation was to release a portable console much like the GBA (like, a Genesis with a bigger palette and SVP capabilities). At the time the only portable was the GBC, and not only it was obsolete, the only apt it had was pokemon. I dont remember anybody buying the console for any other reason than playing those games.

A portable costs less to make, to code and to sell, and brings more profits to the table than a normal console. I could see a world where SEGA dominated the portable market over anybody else.

In some way, this is what ninty did (but didnt plan to do) since both during N64 and GC it was the GB/GBA that brought food to the table. I think if they didnt released pokemon (and thus boosting GB sales) then ninty would ended up in a situation pretty much like SEGA's after the DC.

Back to the point: the reason behind DCs failure is simple: lack of funds. Look at the Xbox, if MS wasnt made of gold (like it is) and that console was made by any other VG-only company you can bet they would be either bankrupt or executed by their investors. In medical terms the Xbox was a money hemorrhage, yet MS kept going because they had the capacity to do so. Overall, the DC was a success and the Xbox a failure if we kept ourselves just to the cost numbers.

 

My comments about poor games was only a question mark. I agree the DC had some wicked games and it is my second favorite system after the PC Engine :icon_bigg

New franchises are definitely a risk but although the masses won't rely on a established the brought a good load greatness think Jet Set Radio, Shenmue to name a few...for the hardcore guys like me. Though we missed a lot of stuffs that were ported to PS2, GC and Xbox, Panzer Dragoon Orta, JSRF, a follow to MSR, OutRun 2 a shame really.

At least we still have the game that were released to enjoy and all that is cheap now.

I agree SEGA screwed up with average addons like the Megacd and the 32X, the Saturn did not performed well in the west but had a good follow up in Japan. It could have been better if Sega of Japan and Sega of America got along well, competition within a company is not a good thing, no alignment leads to disaster...

As for killer apps like Halo and GTA, MS and Sony did manoeuver well to get these franchises and that's maybe part of the problem of being a console and game maker at the same time, if you don't manage your third parties very well others will!!! Sony does make games don't get me wrong, but look at how many SEGA games were released on the DC it's nowhere Sony's production. Look at Nintendo with GC, I'm sure they learned their lessons or at least part of it. But still can't see huge commitment from the likes of Konami for the Wii though Snake in a Smash Bros Melee game can lead us to hope for the best.

Sabre

 

PS3

Taken from www.the-magicbox.com :



- SCE's president Phi Harrison expressed his opinions about the PS3 controller in a recent interview in the Der Spiegel magazine:

• He disagrees that SCE appropriated the motion sensing idea from Nintendo, as it has been in works for some time. "It is perfectly naturally for two companies to work on nearly identical devices. It is like that with technology."

Yeah right like we believe that!!! it sounds like school where 2 children make the same presentation in front of their class but only one is believable and the other's a cheat. Come on, their new controller is ridiculous ppffff... even Infinium Lab could have done better!!! I'm sure they paid Ubi Soft to say it's good to make them credible.

• He reiterated that the PS2 Dual Shock controller is "de facto industry standard" for video games. Sony defined the standard for man-to-machine interface for playing videogames

True the controller is good, but to say their defined the standard don't be ridiculous...

• Also, he thinks that PS3 will have enough processing power for non-gaming functionalities to render traditional PCs, people can do most of the things just like a computer.

We just want a console please!!! I like my PC built my self I don't want a PS3 for computing, actually now that I've the price, I don't want a PS3 at all...

 

Interview with Peter Moore.

Choice quote:

Actually, I think saying your console is going to be backwards compatible and then calling it a day a few months after launch is kind of over-promising and under-delivering, no? Last time I talked to a mate with a 360 he said none of his sega games (Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, Outrun 2, Shenmue 2) were working. That's a real shame if you ask me.

 

Yeah, that is total bull. BC is really important to me, some people don't have space for all their consoles to be out all the time and more importantly BC means that even if your original console gets dodgy you can always replace it with a brand new machine at any time.

I actually really admire Sony for nailing BC on the PS2 and hopefull 3. Sony seems to understand that the Psone back catalogue is a truly valuable asset. Especially to the people who have poured thousands into supporting it.

You can bet that if MS were charging for BC "upgrades" on the marketplace that they would have sorted it out long ago.

 

Tell me about it: I didnt get an Xbox cuz the 360 was coming out, and now I'm getting without the games I really want, those from SEGA...

 

A bit of furious backpeddling from Microsoft today.

 

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171


Very interesting IMO. I think, if this is accurate information, then Sony is going to be up shit creek come a year from now. If they wind up having the "lesser" versions of games on the more expensive console... I just can't imagine a casual "one console" gamer opting for their system.

 

http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/06/05/0933239.shtml

Read the comments for a different view of the inquirer article. Now I know almost nothing about the internal workings of the PS3 so I will reserve judgement. There seem to be enough people disputing the inquirer take on things for me to be dubitable at this point.

Anyway, PS2 may have been harder to program than anything else (in the universe) but Sony did ok with that. MS are just going to let Sony keep hold of the market unless they start bringing more diversity to the line-up. Also the online vision is all well and good, but a vast amount of game genres are totally unsuitable for an online environment. If MS does not move away from broody 3D shooters then they don't stand a chance against Sony. Shit machine or not!

 

I do hope that the Ps3 will prove inferior to the 360, because a 360 I can afford, a Ps3 I'm afraid not

 

This PS2onPS3 solutions seems like something from the Saturn years: a quick fix to a pretty big problem. I wonder if this wont cause incompatibility issues with the next models.

Dunno, maybe MS is trying to get the PCgamer market into the X360, mainly cuz they are known for expending various times the amounts of money the average console gamer does.

 

Exactly, MS is currently only effectively targeting the Western PC gamer market. If you want to go beyond that (or make me buy your game) you need to expand the range of games your platfrom offers.

MS cannot obtain overall market share by Western PC games alone. The uber hardcore crowd will nearly always prefer PC - better graphics and control. Thus the 360 will only ever shave off the more casual end of an already limited market.

I personally think MS has a good(-ish) product and a decent price, they just need to break out of the very limited range of games on their machine.

 

So what would you say they need to do most then Warakia? Obviously RPGs, as well as perhaps a steady lineup of 2D fighters and top-down shmups, but beyond that what can they do? is their anything marketing could be doing better for instance?

 

I think they should actually tone down their emphasis on games like Halo, Gears of War etc. It is about perception, if the system is represented by those games then people will just associate it with that kind of game. Better the system was represented by no game in particular than Gears of War.

I mean do a google image search for gears of war. Grotesque and violent comes to mind. Now if that was a film, I think you would have to agree that it would have limited appeal. Those kind of games are a massive turn off to millions of people. They actually define the reason a lot of people are not interested in games.

Now I don't doubt for a moment that Gears of War will sell like crazy, but it will probably not be big in asia and most importantly of all it will not bring anyone new to the console. The 360 has nailed, and I mean nailed, the FPS market (despite having an imperfect controller). Also the 360's emphasis on online play is perfect for FPS. However this success in this field does not transfer to many other genres. Online play is rubbish for 2D fighters (lag), it is not applicable for RPG, adventure or many other genres. Thus MS needs to shift its emphasis from these FPS, bloody action games and online modes for inappropriate games.

360 just needs to move away from its current limited range of games, where is the variety, where are the oddites? They could even do with a bloody karaoke or Party game. I can't speak for any western markets but in Japan they also need to soften the image. They also need to show us the f-ing battle system for Blue Dragon. Notice how in a recent issue of Famitsu they spent 4 pages talking about all the tiniest details of the battle system in the 10 seconds of FFXIII we have seen thus far! That is how you sell an RPG. Blue Dragon has not been used well enough for what it represents.

So my very general plan would be - more RPG and more variety. Also more Japanese development, afterall MS have a very limited time left before Sony arrives and grabs all the Japanese development going spare. Can MS survive on mostly Western Games? Well it can, but I doubt it can reach out to new gamers, especially in Asia.

 

I've to disagree with you warakia.

To start let me tell you what I been saying for a long time: we're a minority. Yes, the major chunk of the market isnt kids anymore but people between 18 and 35 years old, yet that doesnt mean all of them are gamers like us here. Most of them are casuals, they got the Nes during primary, the Genesis during high school and the PSX during college, and now they work and have a PS2. They always go with the flow.

About gory games, man, they are always the killer apt in every generation. The fact that Mortal Kombat went first on the Genesis was a huge blow against the Snes, even when ninty made a pretty big campaign to smear SEGA. Then they release it on Snes (hypocrits) but there's no blood: nobody, not even the kids of nintendo employees buy a copy.

PSX got several gory games that sold like bagels, and the PS2 owns her big-ass 60% share of the market to GTA. I'm not saying they wouldnt be in 1st place without GTA, but the gap between them, Xbox and GC would be way shorter than now.

About old school games, well that OK as long as it is japan only. Here on the west they better release top-notch 2D if they want to compete against 3D, cuz another STAlpha cant and wont do it.

I think MS wants to lure the budget PCgamer who's sick of increasing GPU costs and would prefer to expend 1000 bucks on an X360+HDTV ratter than a mid-end PC that wont run next year's games.

 

OK Shadowlayer, you see the thing is you clearly have a very western view on things -

PS2 still has a massive market share in Japan, but that is in no way due to GTA. You can't put all of PS2's success to one game in all regions. Saying "PS2 owns her big-ass 60% share of the market to GTA" is clearly not the case globaly.

I am not disputing gory games as killer aps (read my post), I am disputing them as a means of accessing a larger market share. Especially given that Mortal Kombat was once mainstream, now karaoke games are.

I totally agree with you that MS is targetting the budget PC game, I just think that this is going to limit their overall market share. I believe they should be able to target more than one demographic at a time!

 

Well I do think in western, cuz I'm western and I havent went outside this hemisphere (not that I dont want to, I cant)

With the 60% I meant US, europe and australia, nothing more, nothing less. Yes I have an overall idea of japanese gaming yet I havent seen it live so I will ratter stay away from the topic instead of giving an ignorant answer as most people do.

Gory games are still mainstream and big sellers, but if with karaoke you mean japan I know that's mainstreams since the days of the Genesis. Remember the Wondermega with karoke built-in?.

I cant say Ms is going to fail with this strategy, nor I can say its bulletproof since there's the possibilty that PCgamers prefer to spend more and keep their PCs. Obviously if MS fails its going to hurt them badly, but if they win...

Anyway, my apologies if I sound kinda rude all the time, is that thats how I am.

 

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2006/06/07/103,1149672727,54492,0,0.html

News ahoy, firstly check out the screen in the link for the new pokemon game. While the game concept does not get me going the graphics look awesome. Very nice indeed.

News - Wii first units sold at a loss. Hmm they really want to make a splash.
DS is a touch screen controller for the Wii - awesome!
And he highlights the real issue why the Wii is not a graphical powerhouse -
"ハードのサイズが大きくなり、ファンはうるさくまわり、ソフトの開発費は高騰し、すべての商品が大作化していく".
Yes that is right. Because the fans are too loud in large machines. Joking aside, I kinda agree with him. Small and quiet is most certainly a good thing.

 

Using the DS as a controller for FPS in case you dont like the remote is a clever idea.

I dont get why the Wii is going to make a loss during the first units, since most of the components inside seem pretty cheap to me.

Unless the remote is pricey as I said before...