The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

Hmm the colouring doesn't show in the pics though. If I was to make something look like an old scroll I'd teabag it and by that I don't mean drape my testicles/scrotum all over it, I mean Earl Grey + hot water and dab the tea leaves on to the label until it stained nicely. Maybe you'll have to remember this tip for next time

 

I think a lot of other people would not think it was strange too, but Dion has said for 9/10 years that people were playing the game, and used these pictures as proof of that. Yet, in the pictures I think the people aren't playing the game?

So Dion, in the pictures (and these pictures only), what is on the television is a video running, not the game, right? Can you at least answer this? Just a yes or no.

 

You are right Juste in that it doesn't look like the people are playing the game, I think Dion sort of answered that though by saying there was both a video display and a playable version there. If the only pics taken were of posers by the video it is neither here nor there, though you would think they could have got pics of the playbale version too.

There could have been a fat cunt like me sat on the playable version making for a crappy photo, or it could just be that when people are actually playing the game it doesn't make for a good picture as you have to have that cheesy smile and shit and your constipated concentration face sorta kills the marketing value, who knows. It could be all this and more or none of these things.

Another oddity I spotted which is sticker related is I can't see the NGF warranty sticker on the cart, didn't you plaster that on just about everything Dion, or so I'm told? Perhaps it is out of shot or in this context uneccessary, or maybe it is there and I'm just having a blonde moment Not that it matters at the end of the day though.

 

Gah, fuck it. This cunt's a waste of my time. At least the lie is admitted. Scumbag.

 

I have long tube with NGF treatment but could not say ... I have fear of messing around

 

It doesn't appear to have been correctly genre striped either...

 

Well that too but if he had the right to redistribute the games with corrections for the USA market he had the right to amend the genre stripes and they would still be official too

 

You guys are beating around the bush with Dion and avoiding the obvious, inescapable truth. Let's call a spade a spade. As a reminder, these photos were taken BY NGF and PUBLISHED BY THEM to PROVE that they owned the game and had it on display at the CGE. The game was NOT at CGE and these photos were staged based upon existing footage that had existed years before the CGE even took place.

NGF did not have the foresight to realize that other people had copies of the exact video footage they used to stage the photos. As a result, the incident was instantly debunked, and detailed, almost 7 years ago. They were caught in an out and out lie, as you can see by Dion's repeated evasive responses. They NEVER had Last Odyssey. If they did, there are numerous ways of proving it beyond any doubt, and they would jump at the opportunity to do so. NGF NEVER proved ownership of any prototype Neo Geo games, nor has there been any shred of reliable evidence to suggest it.

Let's be direct here and not pitter patter around these issues to keep Dion, or anyone else happy. This is the objective truth. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION OR RATIONAL EXPLANATION FOR FAKING THESE RIDICULOUS PHOTOS IF YOU ACTUALLY OWNED THE GAME. You guys who think that the game was there because Dion posted so in this thread are dreaming.

This is total subterfuge and you guys who want to say "it's not a big deal, whatever" are willfully choosing to ignore the truth. Think about your reasons for doing so, is it to make Dion happy? Those of you who have not been around 15 years in the Neo Geo are just seeing the tip of the iceberg. For every one "Last Odyssey Incident" there are a hundred more lies and deceptions that have been well documented over the past decade plus. It is human instinct to want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't work with these guys. It's just a matter of time before all of you people learn the truth.

It bothers guys like me, who have been dealing with NGF for so long, to see other good people who don't know any better be manipulated by these guys, and that's why I felt compelled to reply. I'm not here to flame anyone, but just to give some perspective and some objective truth. In sum, don't be suckers. Think!

 

A HUNDRED MORE !

Yet this is the best anyone can come up with. A possible photoshop job which had a net result of zero dollars lost to anyone. One where no person was affected whatsoever.

Man if he is guilty I say we have to lock him up !

How can this man be allowed to live !

Perhaps it is because the words Lost Odyssey mean nothing to me but this whole incident makes no sense. Why would someone bother let alone someone who is no doubt busy with other things that do make money? This is a lot of work for what, just to prove he owned something that he didn't.

Let me get this story straight.

Dion says he showed the game in Vegas. People call him on it. He then has to prove it. Uhh ohh what will he do? So he goes out and finds footage that no one had yet to see of an unreleased game no one else had.

Whew that was a close call.

Good thing he found that footage before someone else did so he could back up that story about owning a prototype he didn't have, all for the sake of nothing.

Even if all this is true it means nothing in terms of the general claim of theft that has been laid down. If you want to try a guy in court for a serious crime then you need more than an unrelated story he told where no one was affected.

If someone who has never seriously collected Neo Geo comes to read this thread and in doing so firmly believes that yes Dion lied about this Lost Odyssey game then by that he must believe this blanket statement that Dion lied and cheated a hundred without hearing these hundred cases?

If these hundred cases really exist then here in this forum with Dion here to respond prove one that means something.

 

I've learned two important things from this thread.

1. Neo collectors are fucking crazy.
2. If I ever decide to drink the crazy and start collecting Neo games I'm going to stick to the JP versions.

 

First, this is not a photoshop job. I'm a little confused by your response as to whether you understand what actually happened. Perhaps that is my fault for not explaining it clearly enough. Here it is, broken down:

1. NGF claims they own Last Odyssey prototype. As "proof", they post pictures, taken BY THEM, of the game being played at the CGE, where they had a booth set up.

2. There is pre-existing, recorded VHS video footage of a Last Odyssey prototype that had been PREVIOUSLY recorded. NGF has this footage, and certain few other Neo Geo fans also have said footage.

3. These fans who have that footage compare it to the photos taken by NGF of multiple people "playing" the Last Odyssey game at CGE. The screens from the photos are identical to various stills from the existing known footage.

4. Q.E.D. It is proven that nobody was actually "playing" a Last Odyssey game at that booth, although Chris Ray himself, and a couple of other hapless no-names, are shown holding the controllers, either making a "thumbs up" at the camera, or looking at the screen as if the buttons they were pressing made a difference.

Let me say first of all that I am not saying that Dion should be "guilty" or "not allowed to live" as you suggest. These are video games after all, and I am going to avoid all hyperbole in hopes of having a rational calm discussion with the users of this forum, many of whom I know to be bright, intelligent, and open minded, yourself included. I am also not saying that Dion or Chris are "thieves," or otherwise commenting on Adol's grievances. Those are his own. I have known him for many years and the people will have to judge that situation on their own, as I was not involved. I will say that I have personally had multiple transactions with both Dion and Chris of NGF many years ago and have no personal grievances concerning those transactions.

Now, to address the rest of your post. Yes, there are hundreds of incidents, I'd say from 1998 to present, that seriously and permanently impugn the honesty and integrity of Dion and the NGF organization. These 2 guys "stained" Neo Geo collecting and it is no exaggeration to say that the effects of their actions are still being felt today to Neo fans worldwide. I will explain further later in the post. I don't think the communities for other systems have had quite these types of problems.

I don't have the time, nor the energy, to give you all "hundred" plus examples, but they are out there. I would direct you and anyone else interested to the forums at www.neo-geo.com, where a simple forum search for "Dion," or "NGF," should satisfy any concerns you have. Instead, I will share with you some of my personal dealings and observations, in hopes that might help you all get some unique perspective on these guys. If, at the end, you are still not satisfied, then you guys can keep him around on the forum and learn the hard way.

I got into Neo Geo seriously in early 1998. At that time, new releases were abundant, and the main source of information was a mailing list now affectionately referred to as the "DHP". I signed up to the mailing list. Chris and Dion were both active participants long before they defined themselves as "Neogeofreak" and were great sources of information, and frequently sold multiple titles as well. That is how I got to know Dion.

I remember well one of the first big disputes concerned "converted" cartridges. For those of you that don't know about Neo Geo, the chips in MVS (arcade) Neo carts could be desoldered, and soldered into a "sacrificial" home cartridge for play on the home system. All you have to do then is slap a fake cartridge sticker on the home cartridge and xerox a color insert and you would be hard pressed to tell them from the real thing. At the time, not everyone knew what a converted cart was, although it is common knowledge now.

People were complaining because they bought cartridges from Dion that seemed "off." A few cracked their carts open only to find that the internals of these cartridges were...strange. Solder and wires everywhere. Much like the Last Odyssey fiasco, Dion and Chris were not forthcoming with explanations, admissions or answers. The fact is, these guys were selling converted cartridges of rare games and not telling people they were conversions. They would say "Ninja Masters - no manual - $400."

Me, being a newbie at the time, thought hey, thats not a bad price for a Ninja Masters cartridge. I remember well one of the first IM conversations I had with Dion. It went like this.

ME : Hey Dion, I'm interested in that Ninja Masters home cart. $400 is the price, right?
DION: That's right. This is a very rare game, especially the ENGLISH version! (or words to that effect)
ME : Now, before I purchase, I want to make sure this isn't a converted MVS cartridge. Can you confirm?
DION: What do you mean? These are Neo Geo cartridges.

That was his EXACT response. He would not tell me if this was a converted cartridge or not. Totally and purposely elusive. If I was an idiot and bought that game, I would have wound up with a cart shell, internals converted from an arcade board, and a crappy photocopied case insert and manual, worth basically nothing but the cost of the parts. Luckily I thought better of it at the time. Many people I know personally have gone through their collections only to find that many carts they bought in the 96-98 or so time frame have discovered illegitimate copied inserts and other fake components, despite paying the regular market price.

Time goes on, still the late 1990s. At this time, there is no "master list" so to speak of those games that officially saw release by SNK. This stuff was not common knowledge as it is today, people did not know what regions and formats the games were released on. Dion took advantage of this opportunity. He would post or email me "Dude, I just got in a super rare English Pulstar home cartridge today... from Europe!" and send me a picture. At that time, NOBODY else was making fake inserts, shock boxes didn't exist, or anything. A large part of the community would wonder, wow, did this game get a super rare European release and I missed it? Dion would then post a pic of a gorgeous looking English version Pulstar. People salivated.

Pulstar was NEVER released by SNK in English home cartridge format. They had made a legit looking English insert/sticker in photoshop. But, they would sell these games as if they were totally legit. To make matters worse, these inserts were faked and created BY THEM, but they would say things like they got them "from Europe." Pure bullshit, capitalizing on people's ignorance, and people would buy these games for hundreds of dollars. All of this is 100% truth. And, by the way, this is before there was ANY mention by them that they had the "rights" from SNK to do this. Whether or not they ever did is an argument I won't make here, but I was so disgusted at the time that me and certain other fans worked on creating a "Master List" of official releases and regions so they could not capitalize on this confusion any longer.

When Metal Slug X was released in 1999 Neogeofreak took preorders for the game. Everyone who ordered from SNK, NCS or any other distributors got a red-striped, authentic, SNK produced cart. Those who preordered from NGF were surprised to find that their carts had orange striped "corrected" inserts. When questioned, instead of NGF saying "we replaced the corrected inserts with corrected inserts we made and printed ourselves," they flat out lied and acted as if these were how the cartridges came from SNK. Most collectors today wouldn't touch these orange striped carts with a ten foot pole today. The original is about a $600-$800 game. Again, this is before Playmore sued them for copyright infringement and they came up with the argument that they "had the rights" to do this. Even if true, they totally pulled the wool over the eyes of the buyers with inaccurate information.

As years went on, NGF used to stamp the back of the inserts of all games that passed through their hands. A friend of mine purchased a Twinkle Star Sprites cartridge, price was over $1000+. This might not have been directly from NGF, but lo and behold, when the goods were received, he slided out the insert only to find the dreaded "Neogeofreak" logo STAMPED in unremovable ink on the back of the authentic Japanese insert. Certain collectors might have a problem with that, and it certainly tainted the value and collectability of that cartridge forever. This is not some $20 NES game, but a $1000+ rare Neo Geo game.

You're right - nobody lost money off of this ridiculous false Last Odyssey claim. There are plenty of people who lost money or value in their collections because of deliberate and intentional misrepresentations. However, there are many people who are EXTREMELY interested in preserving the lost Neo Geo games. NGF knows this, and they consider themselves the premier authority on everything Neo Geo, so of course they have to posture and pretend like they have games nobody else has. They have printed fake inserts for unreleased games like Crossed Swords 2 and Warlocks of the Fates and showed people holding the boxes. They have taken pictures of prototype cartridge boards with stickers on them. Yet, TO THIS DAY, they can't simply fire up the game and take a picture of the data screen showing the NGH code number for these cartridges. When the heat turns up and serious inquiries are made, suddenly the "games are sold." People have flown to Las Vegas, where Dion lives, ready to pay thousands of dollars in cash for a promised Neo proto, just to find that he won't answer the phone when they arrive at the airport. I'm not joking.

Those are just a few examples. Yes, there are hundreds more, and they can easily be found with a little simple searching. I'm not going to spend more time converting the sheep. All I ask, for YOUR sake, is that you open your mind and do some research. If you guys want to brush me off and keep kissing the ass of a proven liar and manipulator, so be it. I, and many others, have experience in this area, and we're just trying to help.

I'll do my best to answer any other questions you guys have.

 

I thought I would conclude with a loose, but applicable, example that some of you Atari people, who perhaps aren't as familiar with Neo Geo, could relate to.

Say you saw a for sale post. "Commavid Magicard. Loose cartridge. $1000.00" and you jumped on it. When you got the game in the mail, instead of the crappy typed label that you see on all AUTHENTIC Magicard carts, lets say you unwrapped the box only to find that the cartridge had a gorgeous glossy cart sticker that matched the style of the prior games such as Room of Doom or Mines of Minos. You would realize instantly that this is not how the original game was released. Furious, you write the owner for an explanation, and the owner replies with a PDF file showing you that he is the rightful owner of the name "Commavid" and all its properties and, as a result, the cartridge you got in the mail is totally authentic and authorized.

This is what the Neo Geo community has been dealing with for years with these guys.

 

+1

Great posts geddon_jt thanks for summarizing the circumstance of how all this happened back in the day.

 

Dion....Post it and they will come
Wow. I left the scene in 2003 and reappeared almost two months ago on this site.
It seems everybody is still following and interested in NeoGeoFreak.
Nice to see you here John.

300,000 total views from various threads
Add up the views on the NeoGeoFreak/Dion threads from various site all because I am posting on assemblergames.com and the view counts are over 300,000 in less than 2 months with many old and new people joining in on the discussions. I am really humbled.

So far so good.
At the CGE2k2 we debuted Last Odyssey for everyone to see. This has all been established already as with photo evidence of the game in action.

Last Odyssey footage is from NGF
You're not stating all the facts or you're deliberately leaving out the biggest factor... NGF were the ones that recorded those promo vhs tapes (5 years before there was youtube, etc...)
If we didn't have the game in our possession, how and why would he offer the promo videos for everyone? (it's only a video game, and not really a big deal to Chris or myself as it is to a few of you guys at ng.com)

Pose for the camera
People took photos near the Last Odyssey promo set up, just as they took photos at our booth, took photos playing various games on the cabinet we had, and just as many people take photos with concept cars at various auto shows. I fail to see why you people at ng.com are made at people for enjoying the cge and taking photos of an unreleased game being shown.

Issues????
Thanks. You were always great to deal with. When you and I spoke on the phone you seemed like a straight up and smart guy. So I don't understand your issues and why you're always arguing with Chris. But please don't let that cloud your judgements on NeoGeoFreak, NGF, or myself.

Well of course
Going to ng.com is just a one sided biased point of view by the owner of that site, his various aliases, and the same 5-6 people. There has never been a single veririfed story of anyone being scammed or not receiving an item. So please explain what we did that would be considered as a "scam" in your honest opinion.

Remember, when you take away the emotion, and read/listen to all the facts, you will realize that everything we did and said has always been true.

Faded memory
You're not being completely honest or you may not remember the entire conversation. We offered full original version or economy versions (retrofits/conversions). Our old sales lists can be found using the way back machine (December 2000) and everything is clearly stated if it is a retrofit/conversion with a single asterisk (*). Members here have found those old lists and posted links.

Familiarity breeds contempt
The only problems some of the people had at ng.com was the fact that you guys couldn't and still won't accept the fact that NGF was official. Maybe it was because I took the time to speak with many of you guys via telephone, mailing lists, and on sites like this. So you guys assumed Chris and myself were just regular guys like you all were.

Official Distributor
The difference was, Chris and myself always told everyone we were official distributors. Can you admit that we always told everyone that? So being official and having autorized rights for repackaging, any and all items that we sold are official.

NGF FIRST: Retrofits, Corrected Inserts, and Inserts for japan only titles.
Sure we were the first to do it, and all our items matched the original japanese ones, but we had all english fonts. We were able to to this because snk-japan gave us all the art files. I've shown the positives, negatives, MOs, zip drives and jazz drives for many years.

Arts shown
Check the NGF Posterity Archives thread on this site, or check the NeoGeoFreak Zupapa release faq, etc.. Since we were the official ditributor and had repackaginf rights, snk-japan issues us all the art files we needed for packaging and distribution.

It was never issued by snk-america, but it was issued by snk-japan and the english version by NeoGeoFreak.
Authorized by snk-japan.



Verified in US Federal court, sworn testimony under oath, with a signed affidavit by snk-japan, playmore, snkneogeousa, NeoGeoFreak, and US Federal Court settlement, under the Honorary Judge David O. Carter. All NeoGeoFreak items are 100% official and fully authorized. "

Honorary Judge David O. Carter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Carter

In addition to his judicial functions, Carter has lectured fellow judges at the California Judges College, the Judicial Criminal Law Institute, and the Ninth Circuit Judicial Conference. He also speaks frequently with judges abroad, including engagements in Brazil, Bosnia, China, the Philippines, and Malawi. Carter also teaches an undergraduate course on international narcotics trade at the University of California, Irvine, where he has received the school's Distinguished Professors Award three times, and has taught at Whittier Law School's Summer Abroad Program.

United States District Court

Carter was nominated by President Bill Clinton on June 25, 1998 to fill a seat vacated by William J. Rea. Carter was confirmed by the United States Senate on October 21, 1998, and received his commission the following day.[1] He now sits in the Southern Division of the Central District of California in Santa Ana, California.[2]

As a jurist, Carter is known for his intellect, courteous judicial demeanor, work ethic, and expertise in complex criminal cases.[3] Although he is assigned to the Central District of California, Carter also regularly sits by designation in the District of Idaho and on occasion in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and in the District of Guam.

Notable cases

Gay-Straight Alliance (Colin ex rel. Colin v. Orange Unified School District)
Mexican Mafia Trials (United States v. Fernandez, et al.)
Anna Nicole Smith (In re Marshall)
Aryan Brotherhood Trials (United States v. Mills, et al.)
Barnett v. President Obama

FEDERAL JUDGE DAVID O. CARTER DISMISSED OBAMA “BIRTHER” SUIT YESTERDAY March 30, 2011

Orange County Man Sentenced to Over 10 Years in Federal Prison for Role in $61 Million Ponzi Scheme. Judge David O. Carter throws the book at the guy. THANKS JUDGE DAVE!

Quote
"I am SO SO glad that we have GOOD FEDERAL JUDGES like DAVE CARTER keeping the world around us safer! We need more "David Carters" as Judges....!"

Quote
"The Honorary Judge David O. Carter is one of the most powerful men in the United States. His rulings are final."

Quote
"Verified in US Federal court, sworn testimony under oath, with a signed affidavit by snk-japan, playmore, snkneogeousa, NeoGeoFreak, and US Federal Court settlement, under the Honorary Judge David O. Carter. All NeoGeoFreak items are 100% official and fully authorized. "

Read the bold highlighted statements above.
You said you're a lawyer right?
You claim to be a lawyer, and you KNOW this case has been settled almost a decade ago. So why are you trying to ignore the facts, details, and the order of a US Federal Court settlement, under the Honorary Judge David O. Carter?

NGF distributor sticker and authenticity stamp
This argument has been done many times. Go back and read some of my previous replies as pertaining to the NGF Distributor/Warranty sticker and the NGF stamp for authentication purposes. Warranty and official distributor. That's what they were used for.

NGF value rising
You guys also tried to say the english KoF2000 wasn't official and that is was worthless. It is now the 3rd most sought after title on the neo aes and the 3rd most expensive game.

Now that people have matured and stopped believing the hateful propaganda spewed out at ng.com, NGF games are now raising in value.

NGF always show proof
You guys wanted photo of the cartridges. We provided photos.
You guys wanted photos of the inside boards. We provided photos.
You guys wanted photos of the game screen. We provided photos.
You guys wanted video of the game in action. We provided videos.
You guys wanted to play the game. Many people played the game at my house, chris's house, or at various trade shows or gatherings we attended.

Moon Landing
There's always a conspiracy nut that thinks the Apollo missions and the moon landing were a hoax.

NGF visits
Not a shred of truth to that. I've met with everyone who has ever visited vegas. We've been at the CGE shows 3 years in a row, worked trade show booths with snk-japan, snk-america, aruze, and many other venues. We're always willing to meet with people (and we have tons of photos with various visitors).

John, it's nice to see that you came out of the woodwork to make a post. As I said, don't hold your arguments with chris against me. Chris has a different way of coming across, especially with the childish behavior at ng.com, so he just pushes their buttons (very easily) for some fun. He'll eventually start posting here, but in the meanwhile, he's having his fun and listening to the members at ng.com rant. (i haven't been to that site in years!!).

Please, short and simple.
John, please don't make your posts so long. Keep them short and simple. It's way too much reading and too much for me to reply to all at once. I want to keep the threads simple and interesting for everyone.


Biggest point to remember to end the debate once and for all:

"Verified in US Federal court, sworn testimony under oath, with a signed affidavit by snk-japan, playmore, snkneogeousa, NeoGeoFreak, and US Federal Court settlement, under the Honorary Judge David O. Carter. All NeoGeoFreak items are 100% official and fully authorized. "

.

 

He is welcome to make his reply as long as he wish/need, it was the most informative reply in my thread since the beginning.

 

+1 on point one, for the most part.

point 2 if the NGF stuff is official I see no problem collecting it too, but chances are I'm never going to drink the crazy, especially not the the crazier Neo prices

In fact grabbing another Neo Geo Pocket COlour, Dreamcast - Neo system link cable and the handful of compatible games is about as far as I'd go.

 

the only thing I learned from this thread is that Dion is a piece of shit

 

WOW.
You NEVER learn, do you?
More and more people come to explain you the guy is a FRAUD, that he never had the rights back in 1997-98, hell that NGF didn't even EXIT at the time, and YET you think his stuff is official?

Seriously, how much did he pay you?

 

I hope i'll have more time in the next days to comment all the crap you said in 1 post,but just answer ONE question:
WHY, if this "english" Pulstar cart was issued by SNK-Japan, WHY does it have a Neo Geo CD manual?
Check the neo geo logo on the upper left side of the manual,everyone can clearly see the CD initials on the right of "Neo Geo" under the Neo Geo logo...because EVERY Neo Geo CD game has it! And EVERY Neo Geo home cart has not.
It is clearly a Neo Geo CD manual, without ANY doubt.
So WHY, if it's official, a home cart release would get a Neo Geo CD manual?

.....BUSTED!

 

You can't just go to court with an accusation. You have to have a reasonable chance of success or your case is thrown out right at the start. To get the reasonable chance of success you need proof, which is something you keep failing to provide. A legal professional would know this so...

Proof or STFU. Testimonies may constitute a lesser form of proof but to win you need a well rounded argument for an airtight case. If the proof exists against Dion having rights in 1997, show it. The fact NGF didn't exist in 1997 in the form you recognise is irrelevant as Dion could have held the rights elsewhere at that time. If you don't show proof, you don't have a case so Dion doesn't have a case to answer, so he doesn't have to offer a response.

Adol, your query with regards to Neo Geo CD manual is yet another epic fail. Why? Dion clearly states the english version is by NGF and in that picture it is the english version. The Japanse version is by SNK Japan and the Japanese version is NOT pictured, correct? The only thing he is saying is the English version produced by NGF is authorised by SNK Japan, seriously it is that simple so all this Neo Geo CD manual nonsense while it is a little odd is ultimately irrelevant as the distributor can choose the form of manual thus you haven't busted squat and if you did so what? It doesn't mean YOU got scammed.

Adol I also particularly enjoy the way you ignore my posts, comments and questions on page 11 and more to the point continuing with your foolish behaviour. I am however still waiting for you to respond to them as I'm pretty sure you've seen them but have no smart rebuttal nor reasonable and logical explanation for them.