Why do people choose not to release rare items?

Discussion in 'Rare and Obscure Gaming' started by slapducky, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. slapducky

    slapducky Robust Member

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    This is something I've wanted to ask here for a while, so here it is. I can't understand why someone would purposely withhold an item (i.e., whatever chump has Conker 64), and not release the files, knowing full well that people want it.

    I know that the only reason I ever became interested in betas, debugs, presskits, whatever, was to approach it with an archiving mentality. I search ebay every few days in case something unique comes up so that I can buy it and share it, not hoard it away for whatever reason. Now, I realize that a lot of people here do that (that is, their are extremely generous their rare items, for which I thank them profusely), but it seems like theres always some guy, somewhere, that everyone knows has something that he just won't share. Why? I don't get it. Is it selfishness? Do they like the attention? Perhaps they feel they paid too much for other people to have it for free? All I know is that it bothers me to no end. These sort of items are made to be enjoyed by everybody, they are (in most cases) pieces of video gaming history.

    I don't think these people are just selfish assholes (at least I hope not), so I'm hoping someone here with more personal experience in this area can inform me as to some general reasons for this sort of thing happening.
     
  2. Bramsworth

    Bramsworth Well Known Member

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    The argument we've all had in our heads time after time :)

    There are collectors who just don't care about what others want. They're personalities are simply different from people like you and me who would likely see how there's a historical significance to something and as the only known owners of it have an obligation to make sure we don't let it get lost in history forever by not getting it out there in some form(which of course is usually sharing the ROM).

    That's probably about as desciptive as you need to get about it, really. It's easy to get want to go on a huge rant and try to figure out the main "WHY!?" behind it, but it's easier to just sum it up as people do what they do. I've pretty much just accepted if I want to find something, I'll have to find it myself. No use waiting for anyone that won't share. And in most situations, the one known owner of something is just that, the only "known" owner. It'd be foolish to think you're alone :)
     
  3. dj898

    dj898 Site Supporter 2015

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    the more suitable topic would be "Why do people choose to release rare items?"
    after all acquiring the rare items usually involve the monetary expense and not many people will be willing to spend their hard earned money to release into public~
     
  4. wombat

    wombat SEGA!

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    Don't forget the legal aspect of it as well. In essence releasing any build (even the content of a demo disc) to the general public without the aproval of the copyright owner is not allowed. Probably in 99% of the times the copyright owners don't care about such an release or don't even know about it, but still it's something you will need to be comfortable with when releasing said data on the internet.
     
  5. HI_Ricky

    HI_Ricky Intrepid Member

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    lol, very simple answer.
    what is " RARE " ?
    once it share , release , this is already not " RARE " .
    who want make the RARE stuff become not RARE ? XD
     
  6. Unknown-Organization

    Unknown-Organization <B>Site Supporter 2014</B>

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    Once Resident Evil 1.5 is released which will treat just as another Resident evil game, then it over. Nobody cares after that and quarter or maybe half of Assembler members will vanish form this site.

    I own some valuable Alpha/betas games that does not exist on the internet for this information of these builds and yet what @Slapducky wrote which I haven't thought about. Also it is to do with money aswell. I have released three alpha builds years ago and eventually a year later I got screwed by Eidos by slapping on the wrist for legal issue, I got lucky that point.

    Edit
    There one rare alpha build that I own which I wouldn't mind to release to the public but then again, I can't because there are quite a few collectors who also own/have a same alpha build I got and of course it will piss them off as their money has flush down to the toilet for losing it valuable price in the future.

    Sometimes you can't release a rare or very expensive builds to the public when you felt like it. It needs to come up with some sort of agreement by others collectors aswell.... If they accept the idea of it but most of case, it just turns into of arguments.

    Let face it, It all to do with money and credited.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  7. Bramsworth

    Bramsworth Well Known Member

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    Best to release stuff anonymously then. But the human element makes that impossible since most people can't bare not to be credited :)

    Whether people will be over something once it's released or not shouldn't be anything that decides if you will release anything. There's no way you can expect eveyone to forever go nuts over something, and prototypes is a pretty niche thing to begin with. If you're holding back for that reason then you must be one of those people that wants to be remembered forever as "that guy who dumped prototype of x game" which in the long run doesn't matter. The majority of protos out there no one knows who dumped them, nor do they care. Later on in life I can find out who dumped some proto and go "ah, so that's his/her internet name eh..." and then not thinking a second more about it. You gain nothing there.

    It should all be about preserving history that the companies behind these things seems willing to just let sit in their archives. Brings to mind the question why do they keep this stuff archived to begin with if they don't intent to do anything with it but let it sit till it rots.

    Edit: Just noticing your edit and I don't understand the idea of preserving others people's investments. They're complete strangers, and if it were me I wouldn't feel like accommodating the interests of people who don't see the importance of not keeping this stuff to themselves.

    I could go on forever about that but eh.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  8. Unknown-Organization

    Unknown-Organization <B>Site Supporter 2014</B>

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    @Bramworth

    I agreed with you but then If you bought a build for 500 euros and then all the sudden some collector release a build to the public for free which you just paid amount of money for that. You probably be piss off.

    Of course you won't gain nothing though but who cares anyway and you have to be purely arrogant to be that. Money is what care for the most.. as being greedy to keep valuable stuff that is something is worth to sell for.

    The higher price it will go for, the less likely new buyer won't release a build to the public because of high price in the first place.

    It all about money.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  9. Evotistical

    Evotistical Robust Member

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    Not everything is for selfishness;

    Also, some people who collect don't know how to rip/dump games. Some rippers/dumpers cost $$$-$$$$. That will be added to the cost. I also acknowledge some board members have these devices and will rip/dump for free. I really want a NES M82, but if someone said for me to send out a $6000+ piece of equipment because they want to dump the base rom, I'd tell them to fly a kite. See reasons below** .I'm pretty sure that some of the other members who collect feel the same. Also keep in mind, not all collectors have infinite cash flow.


    Reasons not to dump\rip:
    If you send it out it might get lost/stolen or the person dumping it may be irresponsible and never send it back
    As said before dumpers are expensive.
    Might de-value you piece if you share.
    Some people might call your piece a fake.
    You might not be in the position in life to cater to others needs for shipping over the internet.
    Small chance for the copywrite owner to breath down your neck about unauthorized copies.
    You may want to keep your rare item in original packaging



    Infact I really thank the people who risk there time/energy/reputations to put these rare items out to the public. There is no need to do this, as they own the said item. Life will go on if we don't have a rare obscure conker game. But it might make it a bit sweeter if we do!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  10. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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    You over estimate how many people here give a shit about RE 1.5

    You also pulled this figure out of your ass, "87.315% of statistics are made up on the spot"
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  11. Unknown-Organization

    Unknown-Organization <B>Site Supporter 2014</B>

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    @Bad-Ad84

    It trolled well.



    That is the problem. unless your anonymous then it nothing got to worry about.

    Not quite sure what sort of dump device as you stating ? You do you mean Cartridge dump device ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  12. RetroSwim

    RetroSwim <B>Site Supporter 2013</B><BR><B>Site Supporter 20

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    Because they are hoarders. They enjoy having something that nobody else has, moreso than they'd ever enjoy the thing itself.

    If somebody says they are concerned about the monetary value of the rare items declining, then they probably don't care about the games themselves at all, and are simply a collectible trader. Buy low, sell high.

    Nobody who genuinely loves vintage games would want to see them couped up in a glass cabinet for eternity. Games are made to be played.

    If you rip a rare cartridge and share it on the Internet, you still have the rare bit, the actual cartridge. Yeah, people can make repro's, but who cares when you have the original?
     
  13. HEX1GON

    HEX1GON FREEZE! Scumbag

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    Don't think it's due to hoarding. It's mainly a money aspect. Once it's released it's not worth as much, and most likely that person laid out a lot of money to own it in the first place...
     
  14. Bad_Ad84

    Bad_Ad84 The Tick

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    Exactly.

    I buy rare item for £1000, I release it to the public - a lot of the people who would have paid, now wont. I get less for it (say £500?) I have basically given away £500 to the internet. The physical cart is NOT the important part for most people - its the DATA. Prices increase through scarcity, so once the data is easy to get, its worth less and there are less potential buyers to drive up the price with competition/bidding.

    Fuck that, I am not surprised people dont do it. Fund raisers though - so your costs are covered, that id do.

    Its simple economics - supply and demand.

    No rom on the internet = no supply = more demand = price stays the same or increases.

    Rom on the internet = supply = less demand = less money


    For all the people who say they dont understand why people dont release, put your money where your mouth is... buy something rare, then release it. Lots of people moan when its someone elses money, so step up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  15. Bramsworth

    Bramsworth Well Known Member

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    It all depends on how much you care about other people and protecting their investments. If I spent lots of money on something and told people I'm planning to release it, and then got a message from another collector who requested I don't because it devalues their copy, I wouldn't care. I paid for the game to do with what I want, I didn't buy a contract that puts me under obligation to some stranger I don't know. They should have thought about cashing in on their "investment" when they had the chance, they should know they're not the only one that can possibly come into acquisition of such a thing after all. I'm surprised you'd accommodate such people, but whatever.

    It doesn't really make sense to me anyway how there could be a copy of one specific alpha build of a game that numerous collectors have. Are these all copies being distributed by some guy making lots of money? Reminds me of that situation with that RE4 debug disc recently.

    Let me also point out I think the whole idea of sharing prototypes with dumpers just to keep your own personal copy of the dump is ridiculous. Mostly on the dumpers end. I see people get protos on NintendoAge and one of the Nolans always jump in to offer dumping it. Only thing that crosses my mind when I see that is they're using their rep to get free prototypes, since they essentially of course end up with a free copy. Just doesn't sit right with me and comes off as really grabby. I can see why some private collectors never get their protos dumped in this respect, since the equipment may cost too much and they don't want to just hand over a free copy to the dumper. Mind you, drx I would send stuff to but only because I've known him long enough to know we're like minded on protos. Meanwhile the Nolans recently sold that Afterburner on FC and who knows else, probably letting them fall into hands of someone who will never come forward again with them. Since I like to think of any worthy community figures to have the whole preservation(which means sharing, let's face it) for history aspect in mind with whatever they get, that just made me realize they're not exactly working under the same sort of preservation principle I thought they were promoting with their releases up to now.

    Another thing that keeps people from sharing their stuff is that it was so expensive to obtain that any amount of money they'd want in return to even cover near half of the cost would end up being more than any ROM fundraiser has ever gone for so far. Something like Conker, which supposedly sold for like $13,000, would definitely fall under this category. They probably choose to just keep quiet instead with that point. Plus how long it'd take to raise the funds would leave it in the spotlight long enough for some official to come in and ruin everything, so yeah that definitely is a factor I can imagine some have gone through before.
     
  16. Unknown-Organization

    Unknown-Organization <B>Site Supporter 2014</B>

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    Bramsworth

    Yes and also it will get worse on top of that. It better release it before it rot away or anything happen to the seller. Or otherwise they should keep themselves quiet.

    I appreciate with your long postm
     
  17. Bramsworth

    Bramsworth Well Known Member

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    I'm actively trying to track protos so I've had these conversations in my head long enough to make me want to write books on this stuff, despite not always being able to articulate it the best I could :p

    Speaking of bit rot, one that that gets to me about that is people let their protos lie there in wait for bitrot all in the name of money. This whole idea that if they hold on to it the value will rise i the future. Only problem being that if it's a rare item and there never has been a previous sale of it before, or at least not a public sale, then there's no previous value it can possibly gain from. You're free to give it whatever price you want, whenever you want. So you may as well do it now before you screw yourself over and end up with a dead cart/CD just because you thought time would increase the price from the $0 the game publicly sold for previously :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  18. Evotistical

    Evotistical Robust Member

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    1.You still have the issue of devaluing your piece by releasing the data.
    2.Not the device itself, but the distribution of the roms.




    To all others, save up, get a great job, get your college on etc.... Then when you have lots of money, buy up all of the rare pieces and release them to the public.

    About the entrepreneurs issue:
    This kinda reminds me of the people who covet the (insert brand new system here) and get pissed off at the people who buy up the systems.
    I bought 6 wii-u's on the presale date, and sold them on black friday(all online, no waiting in line). I got nasty people calling me up(from Craigslist) complaining that I ruined there kids Christmas and that I am evil...yada....yada...
    But they were for sale for 3 days after the pre-release. Nintendo basically blew up the web about the pre-release.
    I just marketed on peoples lazyness and/or inability to save money(or have good credit). If you couldn't afford to buy one on the pre-release, then you probably shouldn't be buying one on black friday.
    Most of my units went to countries that had to wait months for release.
    I was able to pay for my wii-u for a Christmas present for the daughter, and sell 1 or 2 to family or friends for the price I bought them for. I didn't make money hand over fist.

    Infact I didn't have the money to buy them in the first place, I have great credit, by paying off my balances, so I just put them on the credit card, and payed it off after the sale. A small risk, but with great reward.
    As long as video game manufactures keep releasing with small numbers, I will continue to receive my systems for free(minus labor and risk)
    I'm a jerk I guess, or maybe I can't see any issue's that can't be solved by the complainers of entrepreneurs :rolleyes-new::congratulatory::excitement::rolleyes-new:
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  19. BenjaminStevens

    BenjaminStevens Rising Member

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    One very important reason why a person might hoard an unreleased game is so that he has bargaining power to obtain another unreleased game from a person who is hoarding it.

    Let’s say you really desire to add an unreleased game to your private collection, and you know a person who has the unreleased game that you’re looking for and who is hoarding it. You contact the person and seriously offer him a ridiculously high amount of money for the game, which you may even confidently know is 5 to 10 times the amount that he originally paid for it, and he does not budge at all in his stance of hoarding the game. What else can you use, if not money, as bargaining power for the game? Most often, a person who hoards a video game or games is a serious video game collector, who would love to see his own video game collection grow even more. What could be more enticing to such a person than another unreleased game that almost nobody else has?

    Thus, when it comes to hoarding unreleased video games, a person might find himself “forced” into hoarding a particular video game that he managed to acquire, so that he then has something else, besides or in addition to money, to use in a potential deal for another unreleased game that he really wants, solely because the known owner of the game being sought will not be persuaded by anything else. This person who was forced into hoarding may not enjoy hoarding his game and would actually rather release it online for all to enjoy, without any care of how much money he lost in the process, but then this person might lose any chance at getting the other unreleased game, since once his unreleased game gets released online, the person hoarding the other game, who will not budge in his stance, then has access to it like everyone else, so it can no longer be used in a bargain.

    Also, you have to keep in mind people who received an unreleased game and were forced into a promise not to share the game with anyone as part of their being allowed to receive the game. Such people should not be expected to share the game with anyone ever. The choice of breaking their word must be entirely up to them.
     
  20. -=FamilyGuy=-

    -=FamilyGuy=- Site Supporter 2049

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    While it's pretty nice when someone gives protos dumps for free, I can understand why someone would like to keep it unreleased. If I was billionnaire I'd buy everything and give away, but given some protos can cost a whole lot of money, and that the owners aren't necessarily rich, keeping it unreleased can be the only way to use it to pay the rent later on...

    Releasing a beta for free publicly can cost someone as much as buying everybody on here a common gameboy cart. I've yet to see someone argue people should give more gameboy games for free on that forum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
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