YIAAH! Gunstar Heroes will have it sequel!

I don't doubt what the the boxes say, but unless the characters are Sega's proprietary property or they have [acquired] the license to use them, then Sega only holds a copyright, which doesn't give them permission to make sequels. They have the copyright of the old games, which means they can publish (make copies) of that game. Doesn't mean they own the license to the characters. They are two different things.

Copyright Atlus
Again, copyright Atlus

So why hasn't Atlus made any sequels to these? B/c they don't have the license, only a copyright of the old games. Atlus is to Cave as Sega is to Treasure (in the above sentence). Believe me, Treasure isn't that stupid. The fact that it says "copyright Sega" on the box means dick.

EDIT:

 

We're not talking about Atlus. We're talking about Treasure and Sega.

Something tells me that Sega will get Treasure back anyhow. Treasure did Astro Boy GBA and Sega published that.

 

I'm pointing out a similarity that apparently people are missing. Larger companies publish smaller companies games all the time... it doesn't mean they're forfeiting the franchise... just giving them permission to publish/copy whatever is stated in the contract. The fact that Sega "owns" the franchise b/c their name is on the box is ludicrous.

 

Yeah, I'm well aware how publishing works - Treasure's post-Sega games have been published by Enix, Nintendo, ESP, Sega, and even Bandai. Treasure has retained the full rights to their games (with the exceptions of Wario World, Dragon Drive, and AstroBoy - I'm just not sure how the licensing thing works) but in the case of the original games, they are completely owned by Sega. I'm not entirely sure how I need to phrase this, but I'm almost entirely certian that Sega completely owns the original games - i.e., they aren't Treasure's to work with anymore, much like a second party developer.

 

Keep in mind guys that sequels are against Treasure's religion, this is Sega's doing.

 

Basically Treasure is contracted to make a game with other peoples intellectual creations. They don't own anything in these cases, as is with Gradius V. It's like Capcom developing Zelda games for Sega.

Unless Sega purchased them (which I highly doubt) or Treasure actually never owned them in the first place, then Sega likely doesn't own them now. I bolded that part above b/c to be honest, it's likely that they were Sega's property from the get go. I'll admit, the MD isn't my machine, but I don't think any of those games were Sega's to begin with (that part I could be wrong on). I think it's safe to say though, whomever owned the licenses then, owns them now, which is my point that might have gotten convoluded. Unfortunately, the copyright on the box doesn't mean much (or can be misleading) and going to Treasure's site won't help b/c they list no details for the MD games... only recent stuff. You could perhaps take that as them claiming it's theirs and only theirs, as they give props to games that are clearly other peoples franchises.

Treasure product list

No matter what the fanboys tell you, Ikaruga is a sequel to RS. It was plastered on the original arcade versions first website. They eventually edited it for some reason or another. I don't doubt that Sega is behind this though.

 

Actually, the 'no sequels' thing was pretty much imposed on Treasure by fans. They originally split from Konami because they were tired of doing sequel after sequel and wanted to try their own ideas, and never have to create a sequel if they didn't want to. This kindof got twisted around to the popular 'no sequels' that everyone hears about. Treasure's recent works have pretty much gone beyond the 'no-sequels' rule anyways, with Silpheed, Gradius V, and Advance Guardian Heroes. Ikaruga is a psuedo-sequel - not recognized officially, but if you play to the end boss, you know that there's some connection to RS. Unfortunately, a lot of people merely get hung up on the, "OMG! IT SAY PROJECT RS-2 AT THE START!" aspect, and for all we know, Project RS-2 could just be the development title.

And as far as the Megadrive games not appearing on the Treasure website - did you notice what OTHER game had no info there? That's right, Guardian Heroes - basically, all the games that are currently in question. Why would Treasure's other Saturn games have information, but Guardian Heroes (arguably a more popular one than Silhouette Mirage) not have any info?

Could it be that it's really not Treasure's place to provide info on it? I just feel like I'm repeating myself here.

 

That was the point of my post. When the AC version was announced, months before it was released, it said in plain Japanese 'the sequel to Radiant Silvergun'. At least at one point well after development was underway, it was officially considered a sequel.

Then why is it on their page? Radiant Silvergun has no Copyright information, which is undisputably Treasure. Same as Sillhouette Mirage and Rakugaki Showtime. I think it has something to do with age. Anyways, the point still stands, that just b/c someone publishes something doesn't mean they've got the license from then on out. If that was the case, the little guys would have absolutely no protection.

Sound like it too.

 

well the fact is this, the games on the mega drive/genesis were published by sega since tresure didnt really publish there own games and were devloping exclusively for genesis mega drive(much as nintendo did with rare) even then when there relationship broke off rare got to keep the rights to all the propertys they created while nintendo kept their respecitive propertys. Not only that but treasure is a small company so they probably cant really afford to publish all their own titles, as is the case with esp publishing their latest games or enix in some cases such as yuke yuke trouble makes/mischef makers. Which explains why when they bring their games to the us someone else is publishing it since esp does not have its own us subsidiary. If anything sega is most likely just registering the title since they are just publishing the game themselves thats about it. Notice there was not a seperate copyright or trademark for the words gunstar heroes. This happened with river city ransome, a guy actually bought the rights to the name when technos U.S. licenss of the name expired, yet they register the title for the game boy advance remake wirhout any premision from the guy that currently owns the rights. The guys lawer said he could easily sue, but he let it go since he was a fan of the game as well as for the sake of other fans. The thing is this, all sega is doing is publishing the game and is securing the rights to the name for the U.S. market, thats it. If anything this is most likely a enchanced port since i remember reading in an egm interview with one of the main guys on gunstar in wich he replied that many U.S. companies had aproched him begging for him to port gunstar heroes to the gba or make a sequal, in which he replied hed love to but would rather have the whole original development team working on it. So im guessing its either a true port or just a sequal.

 

:ayashi
YAWN.................................

Who cares who holds the rights or not. There's a new game coming which could be great or could be cack. We'll just have to wait and see.

Now do what Will Smith would do and get jiggi with it :douga :douga :douga :douga :douga

Yakumo

 

Well, isn't that like every game coming out? except for the ones you know are shit before they hit the shelves.

 

(shakes head)Yakumo you dont know how outdated that song is here in the U.S., but still your right, i just made that long ass post to just sorta put a closeure on the argument, its nice to see that tresure is still doing some classic 2d stuff.

 

Yeah, I know the song it old but I heard it on the radio today which sort of got me back in to it

Yakumo

 

Erm, did you actually look at those? It says "©ATLUS/CAVE"!! Atlus *and* Cave both hold the copyright to the games. This is how it differs from the Treasure issue - only Sega is listed on the copyright notice of their MD games. I'm pretty sure there's examples of this elsewhere, but I can't think of them right now.

Actually, all the other small developers I can think of now are always recognised on the copyright notices along with the publishers, e.g. HAL, IS and Game Freak making games for Nintendo. I was gonna say maybe it's just Sega being asses, but then I thought of Pulseman - it says "©Sega/Game Freak" too...

I highly doubt misleading copyright notices would be printed on the packaging or in the game - that would most definately be illegal. I'm 90% certain that only Sega have the rights to Treasure's earlier games (were only Sega are mentioned as copyright holders), but this by no means Sega won't get Treasure back to make the sequal. We'll just have to wait and see. Maybe nothing will happen at all?

 

Yeah... missed those. Could only see the damn logos.

Go digging around Japanese Gaming and have a look. There a lots of games that have the publisher only on the packaging (especially old ones). I know b/c over the years people have corrected me saying, "the game was only published by xx. yy developed it". I picked crappy examples b/c my eyes suck. But again - just b/c you can publish something doesn't mean you own the 'inside' of it. If Sega actually owned these characters and had Treasure develop the games, then that's another story... nobody seems to be claiming to know either.

 

C'mon mate, if you're not interested, don't post. I'm still wanting to know exactly what the crack is here. Who actually owns the copyright/IP to Gunstar Heroes?

 

I will look some time, if I remember. I have to say you have loads of decent cover scans on your site!

I know most the time it's like that, but it does seem to be different in this situation - it's complicated though. It appears what happened was Treasure, being a newly formed company at the time - which probably meant they were very low on funds (and probably had little respect in the industry) - went to Sega to get them to publish their games. They must have came upon some agreement that they would publish Treasure's games, but only on the condition that Sega would own the rights to the games. It's highly plausible.

Well I assume the copyright notices on the games are referring to the game concept, the code, the characters - everything about the game, basically - unless stated otherwise.

Until we get further proof or information on this topic, I still firmly believe that Sega have rights to Treasure's MD games and Treasure (apparently) don't. Copyright notices don't usually lie - they're supposed to be as clear and definite as possible, and this definately applies in Japan. Look at anything related to the Pokemon anime series, for example - they will *always* say "© Nintendo, Creatures, Game Freak, TV Tokyo, ShoPro, JR Kikaku" on them, or a hideous abbreviation of all that. I think they just did that to annoy people though - I don't know what the hell JR Kikaku is, or what it has to do with the series...

 

Considering one of the games has Ronald McDonald, although cheesy (no pun intended) a very expensive license I'm sure, I would think that Sega contracted the work out to Treasure. Again, that's only speculation based on the fact that a small company that can't publish their own games probably couldn't afford a McDonalds license. Hell, maybe McDonalds wanted the game and contracted Treasure!

Back in the day though, the rules didn't really apply. There's a PC-Engine shooter (Sylphia I think it was) that was developed by Compile, but you would not know unless you beat the game and waited for the credits, b/c it's listed nowhere in the manual.

 

Well, actually, Yakumo's less off-topic than everyone else here..:smt043
i don't say to stop this interesting debate, not at all, it was just a fact. ;-)

 

Who cares? The original Gunstar Heroes was cack anyway!