AND (if true) there goes the last reason to have a 360

And that's different from pretty much every Cave game...how?

Is that supposed to be a good thing? Bullet hell is a cancer that has turned the entire genre into unplayable shit that only hyperactive weeaboos enjoy.

 

I was put off when the slim didn't support Linux & the fat ones are too ugly. The only reason I'd get a fat PS3 was for PS2 backward compatibility and they are still rather rare and really expensive in the UK, plus I have a slim PS2. I also have a fat PS2 but they are just too damn noisy, the only thing that is missing is a hard drive but network streaming is fine.

PS3 CFW now allows you to install Linux, but I haven't. I can't see the point. It seems that Sony knew me better than I knew myself and in the end, I didn't really care.

 

i've not looked into CFW on the PS3 as i dont have one, if i were to get one it'd probably be the fat one if i found one for a good price or a slim one as i have a fat ps2 already and don't find it noisy certainly not noisy compared to the original xbox lol

 

Autistic.

as in to be any good at Cave's games you have to have some form of autism.

That said, Dodonpachi is still great, Deathsmiles is one the best games they've done as it's sequel. Ketsui is great it's not impossibly unfair.
ESPGaluda II is amazing even if the final boss is impossible.

 

Cave has made like... 3 original games, and the rest of their library are clones of 2 of those. Though in some sense the DonPachi stuff was grandfathered by Batsugun Special, and amusingly Batsugun Special is worlds better than anything that came after it.

Though I do agree that Psikyo is trash, but for the same reasons I have no love for Cave. Both companies are/were just devoid of fresh ideas as far as I'm concerned.

 

To befair I'm sure Batsugun had mostly the same staff.

 

That was my point. Those guys made Batsugun Special and then went downhill ever since.

Edit:
To be fair, I do like:
Dangun Feveron, Death Smiles, Ketsui (pending on my mood), Pro Gear, and Akai Katana Shin (though maybe only Ketsui would make it in my top 10 shmups of all time list).

But in general, I find Cave boring. And while I was initially excited about the 360 being the "shmup console", since it turned out to be mostly Cave games my 360 has been collecting dust.

 

I don't know. Donpachi and Dodonpachi are two of the finest shmups ever made. The Retardedness of Mushihimesama futari Black Label on Ultra aside. there really isn't a ton to hate about Cave besides what they've done to Dodonpachi.

 

I've never liked the DP/DDP games. I've 1CC'd two of them (DDP and DOJ) and I still can't say I care much for them. I'd rather play Batsugun Special every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

Pioneering the shitty bullet hell genre is reason enough to hate them.

 

I have to agree that the bullet hell genre is pretty damn awful. A shame that G.Rev didn't stay as consistently awesome as they were with Border Down. Now THAT was a great (yet artistically starved) 2D shooter.

 

You guys keep repeating yourselves like little girls. Why in the world is the bullet hell genre awful, shitty, horrible? It's a damn sub-genre and not bad per-se. Of course there are good and bad ones... but saying the entire genre is bad is just as stupid as some jerk saying the entire 2D shooting genre is boring. Do you really seek to discuss on such a low level?

Apparently you have never played a Cave-shooter until you understood the system behind it. There are hardly any safespots in Cave-shooters and MUCH more possibilities for improvisation and spontaneous decisions than in Psikyo's gameplay.

Did GodofHardcore hack your account?

You're such a complete idiot. Not for being completely uncapable to play Cave-games, but for throwing around with words you don't even understand. Autism... lol. I know several people who achieved great scores at Cave-shooters and they are definitely not autists and have no photographic memory either. All they have is endurance and patience and they are probably a bit smarter than others when it comes to understanding rules/situations and applying them right away. That's all... but seeing how you jizz out your "playthroughs" with 1000000 credits like twice a day, no wonder it seems to you that there's no progress possible. I am not surprised at all.

Well, nobody ever said DonPachi was Cave's crown jewel. It's arguably one of the worst titles, but it was also the company's first. Who remembers Treasure for McDonald's Adventure Land just because the same staff did great Konami games right before? They did DoDonPachi right after and that game pioneered a whole genre, was a financial success and is artistically excellent with hardly any bugs in gameplay.

"3 original games and the rest are clones"
-> I disagree. Most Cave-games up to a certain point had very unique scoring systems and graphics/music:

DoDonPachi-Series
Progear+Akaikatana
ESP Rade
Guwange
Ketsui
Mushihimesama-series
Ibara Black Label
Death Smiles
Dangun Fever-On

Tell me how any of these shooters is cloned from one another. Within the series there are of course similarities (DDP -> DOJ -> DFK etc), but from game to game? Hardly. And that's pretty admirable if you look at other companies such as Seibu Kaihatsu (basically every game looks and plays like either Raiden 2 or Raiden Fighters) and Psikyo (ALL games play like goddamn Strikers or Gunbird).

Prove me otherwise but it looks to me as if those who think all Cave-games are similar just haven't played them at all. Emulator on, see a lot of bullets, get bored... just my impression. I spend hundreds of hours on playing both classic and modern shooters on score and I was never dissatisfied by the variety offered by CAVE, yet I also adore Toaplan, Raizing and oldschool Konami.

This whining about the Cave-hype is ridiculous, you guys should be grateful that there was a company that continued to make high-quality arcade shooting games all the way until 2010. Imagine shooters would have died in 2000 with Psikyo and Raiden Fighters. What a lame-ass death of a legendary genre (I love RFJ though).

 

bullet hell = ass bad lazy development.

just my opinion.

can be enjoyable if in the right mood though

 

Why is it lazy? Are you thinking that all bullet hell does is throw big amounts of bullets at you that you have to dodge?

Well, it is not. Maybe at first glance it is, but a lot of things seem simple at first glance. The system behind most bullet hell shooters, especially Cave's, is fascinatingly complex and involves a lot more than dodging. Of course this can only be understood after studying the game for a while. Calling it lazy just shows lack of dedication and reveals that maybe some people should just not be taken seriously when they express their opinion about it.

 

RAINING Bullets while trying to make sure they don't hit a small 60 pixel circle in the middle of a Sprite sure isn't fun. But playing these games and having a running How far can I go without dying thing that can be fun.

As for Ave...

Thanks for the quote.... :smile-new:

 

yes, i agree, there's alot more the just dodging, like ocasionally shooting, collecting crap to score points, memorising patterns.. all massively complex innovations in the field of video games.

yet sandwiched together in a lazy ass concept to artificially creat the illusion of challange and extended play and replayability.

like i said, just my opinion

, i have a similar opinion of certain kinds of RPG also.

 

If you had a legit opinion I wouldn't even try to lecture you, but you base it on false facts.

Cave's shooters require you to be very precise, usually counting frames and miliseconds in order to really maximize your score.

For example, in Ketsui people call it "bullet hell" because it looks like there are a lot of bullets, but actually hardly anyone ever saw the part where it really is all about avoiding bullets (Loop 2). In stages 1-5, rather than avoiding to get hit, you have to focus on keeping your multiplying-counter as high as possible and then attack in close-combat to score (and get extends, and ultimately get promoted to loop 2). Advanced players have to develop a feeling for the health of enemies to anticipate their death in order to switch between auto- and shoot-buttons to milk a maximum amount of 5x-boxes. There's a very deep system behind this game, and the same can be said about ESPGaluda 1/2, DDP, DDP DOJ and DFK/Mushihimesama in particular.
If you don't consider that real gameplay, you may also want to call all puzzle and fighting games as repetitive stuff where you just punch dudes or drop stones, but we all know that's not the case.

By stating that you just have to "memorise patterns" and "collect crap", you just confirmed what I said. You have no idea what you're even playing yet you believe to know enough to condemn it. How so?

 

Bullet hell is indeed just boring compared to classic shooters that were more about reacting to situations than memorizing patterns. Even Cave games are on the good end of the spectrum compared to, for example, the shitty Touhou series where all you do is dodge slow moving patterns all the time. Filling the screen with bullets is no substitute for actual fun gameplay. Also, the scoring systems in Cave games are stupid, convoluted and unfun.

 

Maybe in your memories. In fact, oldschool shooters were ALL about memorization - you had to know where to be, and it was actually sometimes much, much stricter than in modern Cave-shooters. Remember Gradius and its plenty of safespots? If you ever played Truxton/Tatsujin seriously, you will notice that you needed to memorize every enemy position in the entire game in order to be successful at it.

Of course this is only true if you want to be good at a game. But if you're fine with dying and credit-feeding, then Cave is still the same as back in the day - actually even fairer, as back in the day, there were no checkpoints. You HAD to memorize an entire sequence of events in order to advance, even with pressing 'continue'.

Memorization in games with predetermined routes and enemy positions is a natural ingredient simply because things are predetermined. In games with more variables, such as a beat'em up game that you move forward as fast as you like, rules change. But a shooting game is taking place on a predetermined path and will never change. Memorizing patterns was the same in 1985 as in 2005, just the technology changed and some variables to succeed were added.

Your mom is- wait, nvm ;P

 

Fair enough, that's your opinion. But you asked "SO what reason is there to have a 360 now?", implying there was no reason for anyone to care about the XBox, when for lots of people there's lots of reasons for owning an XBox.

If that were even remotely true, then the controller wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is, would it. But even rabid, anti-console PC fanboys often use the 360's controller on their PCs. The 360 controller is great, which is why it's so hugely popular. And personally I much prefer it to the PS3's controller.

Maybe that's true, but no one I know has problems with it, and I've never noticed it myself, though admittedly the 360 controller I use on my PC is wired, and neither I nor my friends have unusual machinery near our 360s.

So I would question your use of the word "incredibly", which implies that the interference is both very commonplace and very bad to the point of ruining gameplay. Care to point out when this happens? It shouldn't be difficult to provide proof, given that it's so bad as to deserve the adjective "incredibly".