English Aero Fighters 3 Home Cart

Just to sum up the whole Dion story what I'm getting is:

He and Chris are the only guys in the planet that could take a Metal Slug MVS cartridge, build a conversion to AES, print a cover and sell it. So because he has the rights for it, it would be a new official copy approved by SNK?
Is that it?

I think now I understand why people are so pissed off with Dion, it's because he isn't a whole company, or a factory he's a single guy with the SNK copyrights and legal powers.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

Go read the unmoderated NG thread and the NGF thread, or if you are brave, one of the topics on NG about it

 

which threads? here?

the problem is that the carts sold for tens of thousands of dollars, and respected people involved in the N-G community were throwing their weight around backing the validity of the carts to the buyers. I definitely agree though, who drops tens of thousands of dollars and doesn't ensure with 100% certainty that the item is legit? Then again who drops tens of thousands of dollars for a different sticker on the cart? The mind boggles

 

I can't read NeoGeo.com threads, too much bullshit to find some useful information

 

You got the idea

 

So.. following this line of thought.. he's ok with the law but SNK didn't like that or else the company wouldn't sue him.

He has this kind of power because of some mistakes SNK did in the past and in front of the court room SNK lost.

SNK didn't like that.
NeoGeo fans didn't like that.
But it's the reality of US laws and US collectors must swallow it.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

from what I gather Dion and crew lucked out with the fact that SNK transitioned over when it did

 

Actually, NGF were doing there buisness with no problem while SNK was in place. It's once Playmore came in that they goy sued, only to be confirmed that their buisness was approved by SNK without Playmore being aware of this.

 

This will seem a bit long, but I thought it would be best if I tried to address many of the excellent observations and replies.
It's broken down with many replies (because a moderator would have merged all me replies together anyway, I felt it would be
best if I did the best I could to keep it easier to read.



@Retro - thanks for your observation. Finally someone who understands the legalities.
People don't want to face facts
Much of the anti NGF propoganda came from the days when attacking/flaming NGF was the vogue thing to do and instantly made someone popular.
Plus it's a sure fire way to change the subject being discussed to avoid the issues presented.

As for Geddon/John Thacker's involvement in all this:
While his detailed report does open up some serious issues as to his involvement due to the fact that of the discrepencies and the new information that he, himself,
owns a copy of the fake AeroFighters3 cartridge. I spoke to him via a long telephone conversation and he insists that he is innocent and that he played no major role
in those games other than his report. I informed him that his "detailed report" is what implicated him and put his name in the spotlight.
Also, his long time partnership/friendship with SuperGun/Billy Pitt is another reason people question Geddon/Thacker's involvement.

With that being said, after speaking with Geddon/John Thacker I tend to believe he is not/was not involved in this deception and fraud as deep as some people may believe.
He may have been duped by both Tonk/Mike Dicioccio and Supergun/Billy Pitt (sometimes friends betray each other). I'm not a lawyer, judge, or executioner, so I'm only giving
my personal opinion. I've exonerated Geddon and I think he was sincere and honest with me. He gave me much more information about this fraud that shows he's cooperating
and doing his best to clear his name.


Tonk bullied people into accepting his long time membership as proof
When David/G, Tonk/Mike Dicioccio, and Supergun/Billy Pitt tried to pass those counterfeit games as legit, they bullied
and forced peopel to take their long time membership status as proof. If someone disagreed, they would rally and attack the person (as a defense).
It's a shame how they used their 10+ year "special avatar" ranking to scamm people.

Authorization and the vocal loudmouths
I've always been very professional and curteous when I post and/or reply.
The authorization from snk, playmore, and the federal courts is available for all to see (if need be).
The vocal loudmouths are making themselves look more and more foolish by trying to say otherwise. So it's best to ingore the immaturity.

Information, Proof, and Diggerman
Whenever I do post any type of information, I will usually back up my claims with detailed information and photos.
Upon doing such, more people will be able to come to their own conclusions.

As for Diggerman, the proof is in the Playmore press release that it's an authorized game from SNK and not a homebrew
as other "so called experts" have been trying to claim just to discredit the NGF release.
Even if it was a homebrew release, I failt to see how that would be used to make NGF look bad. NGF is not prpogrammers.
In other words, we didn't make the game, so talking badly about Diggerman does not effect NGF or hurt our feelings.

Perhaps a momentary lapse of judgement
In my opinion, Geddon may have been duped or blinded by these releases. Maybe he wanted them to be official and it caused a lapse in his judgement.
We may never know 100% of the details, but I am willing to give Geddon/Thacker exoneration from the charges of his involvement.

Reputations destroyed
While it is true that no one will probably ever do business or trust the words of Tonk/Mike Dicioccio, supergun/Billy Pitt, and possibly Geddon/Thacker, I do think
that it would be unfair to over demonize Geddon/Thacker on the basis of his detailed report. I'm willing to let him speak his peace and help him with this entire mess.

NGDev involvement
There is some new information regarding NGDev's involvement in this fraud.
From what one of the persons involved in this mess has told me, the case against NGDev is pretty bad.
NGDev was one of the first to step up and proclaim that they knew the source (before he revealed his name). They said they worked with him
many times and that they could vouch for his past employement at SNK-USA (something we now know is 100% untrue).

I don't understand why NGDev was so eager to get involved and proclaim themselves to know and have done business with davidg, and I
really can't understand why they were eager to vouch for his snk employment. It paints a very bad picture against them.

But unlike ng.com or other loudmouths, I'm willing to hear NGDev's reasons for their big proclamations and initial support for these counterfeit
products from the person they claimed to be in business with (which to me is another conflict of interest).

The Sympathy Ruse
Now they seem to be backpedaling by stating they too have lost money in a sour deal with this "davidg"(may not be his real name).
This may be part of a sympathy ruse for people to not focus too much on their involvement. (a little too obvious for anyone with some smarts)

Self proclaimed Proto King
Don't get me started with supergun/Billy Pitt
His involvment to me is the most troublesome. I'm open to hearing what he has to say in all this.
My biggest gripe is that he was the biggest proponent in all this.
Before the AeroFighters3 fraud, Tonk/Dicioccio was begging people to loan him a copy of the KoF2000 English edition
so he can prove NGF's release was questionable. (all part of the act)

Billy Pitt was the first person to jump in and say he was willing to loan his copy for tonk's inspecition. (all a big scam).
The truth was later revealed that davidG, Dicioccio, and Billy Pitt were planning a "lost release"... an unbranded KoF2000.
LMAO!! What a group of losers.

You're wrong.
NeoGeoFreak was never sued by SNK.
It was playmore that filed that frivolous lawsuit and took us to court.
Anyone can sue anyone; Winning a lawsuit is entirely different. (NGF won) ;-)

 

damnit Dion

also my understanding of NGDev's involvement is that they were busy doing business deals with DavidG to secure Neo Geo snap boxes that he purchased from SNKP, that's his current "i cant refund money yet" story, he already bought the boxes with the counterfeit money and can't refund until NGDev pay him or something

 

I know that NGF won, but they sued you for what? More money?
Or because they love their company and want to protect what's theirs?

I'm not accusing you of anything I just want to understand this scene that I'm getting into.

Think about this, you made the art for a car, and somebody on Russia start to sell your car, they sell it so well because of your awesome design that they create a new line, changing a few things, the format of the wheel and so on.
Wouldn't you be pissed off with our hypothetical Russian market man?

Tell me, if you create a conversion at your own house (MVS to AES) wouldn't it be official?
Don't you think this kind of power in the hands of the "biggest neo geo fan" as you said yourself on the racketboy interview is kind of dangerous?

"With great power comes great responsability" (Spider-Man)

 

dude just quoted spiderman in his battle against Dion

 

I'm not battleing. I respect the guy, a lot.

He's a great businessman, I just want to understand his side and see if he can understand mine.

BTW: When I started to collect NeoGeo Dion was very kind to e-mail me and help with a few items.

PS: One more question, why did the court gave you the powers over the NeoGeo copyrights?
Because you did so well selling the games?
Don't you think that if that would apply today GameStop would won Sony and Microsoft rights?

 

Please remember, this thread is not about NGF. But I'll still answer it (a moderator can move it to the NGF History Thread)

Frivolous lawsuit
You bring up some valid points and I appreciate your candor.
If you're able to see the initial court papers, Playmore was suing us for $2,000,000usd (two million US dollars).
This was all based on wrong facts that one of the moderators from ng.com, Bobak/Aria, had given them.

Both Chris and I don't really think it was about the money. We feel Playmore put the $2million amount to intimidate us ($1million each).
What playmore really wanted was for NGF to relinquish our licensing rights for neogeo aes repackaging, that we originally had with SNK-Japan.
No way in hell would we give up our licensing rights without a huge payment.
If Playmore wanted them, Playmore would have to buy them from us, just as we originally had to buy them from SNK-Japan.

Once we provided all the legal contracts and receipts, Playmore was in a disarray. They now realized that they were fed wrong information.

We're very responsible because we're the biggest fans.
As for "great power comes great responsibility" .... You're 100% correct.
More wrong facts have been spewed over the years about conversions.
We ONLY offered conversions for games that were not released on AES (mvs only) (Breaker's Revenge, Shock Troopers, etc...)
We also made sure that all our inserts had the NGF backbox placed on insert, as to not cause confusion with original snk inserts.

I hope that helps clear up some of your concerns.
Thanks for asking me a question worth answering. (even though this thread is not about NGF or NGF inserts)(this thread is about the AeroFighters3 scam)


As for your follow up question...

Copyrights
The courts did not give or grant us any powers over neogeo copyrights or IPs, and we've never claimed to have copyright control.
We do have licensed rights for English inserts and repackaging, but that is very different from actual copyrights control and ownership.

Thanks for the questions.

 

Thanks for your answers, Dion.

If you have the time, do you mind explaning how far you can go with NeoGeo items?

Just an exemple, if you decide to do a run on Irritating Maze AES, are you allowed to create your own Manuals?
If you don't or even if you do, who creates the manuals for unreleased AES games?

When you do a conversion of this kind, the swap of eeproms must be made using a donor cartridge. This kind of work is done by hand?
Do you have a skilled solder to do a new AES game from an MVS game?

Is there a documented list of games that received an AES conversion licensed by NeoGeo Freak?

And final question to not take much of your time, if somebody request an AES legal copy of an MVS only game would you do it?

 

OK, once again we're getting off topic going back over the same Dion/NGF saga. Sorry, but it's getting old now. Every time Dion's name comes up, someone starts asking the same questions. I'm sure even Dion himself is getting tired of it! This thread was actually locked for going off topic but re-opened.... and then you immediately started asking your questions veggav, lol.

As I said, if you want to know what happened, go and read the two threads I mentioned HERE ON ASSEMBLER. You can also go way more in-depth over at NG. If you really MUST keep digging it up, then please open a new thread.

Here, I'll help:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?31774-NGF-history-and-snk-buyout-details

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?31913-The-unmoderated-NEO-GEO-thread

http://www.assemblergames.com/forum...-authorized-inserts-press-release-information

Probably a bit here:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?36690-KoF2000-Verification

And now to NG *deep breath*:

First, a modern thread:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...and-History-made-NGF-and-N-G.com&daysprune=-1

Then the oldies:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...eo-Geo-USA-v.-Dion-Dakis-and-Chris-Ray-UPDATE

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...K-(the-real-interpretation-of-the-Settlement)

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?70231-ChrisR-vs.-Bobak-A-real-debate

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?69852-Playmore-SNKNeoGeoUSA-Press-Release

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?69844-Playmore-Update

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?68978-NGF-usa-whats-going-on-with-them

Both Dion and I posted links to the legal documents in some of those threads, so you'll be able to read (the archives of) them there.

Back on topic.....

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...dG-s-recent-and-future-exclusive-AES-releases

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?232237-Aero-Fighters-3-U.S.-AES-Discovered!

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?236191-The-Reveal

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...owners-of-Aero-Fighters-3-and-Power-Spikes-II

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?236346-Open-Disclosure-to-the-Community

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?236264-Open-Apology-to-Community

Apparently, open letters are all the rage over there! Unless your name is Tonk... then you just lurk and make no apology to the community.

 

Ok, sorry, my bad.

You don't need to answer, Dion.
It's ok.

/me gets a heineken beer and start reading.

 

Headers: Now you'll understand
Now you and other people will have a better understanding of why I use headers when I post.
I use the headers to help me find answers/topics when needed to requote or give direct links to questions I've answered hundreds, and hundreds of times before.


@veggav: Retro isn't telling you to stop asking questions, and neither am I.
All retro is saying is for you to read the older threads and/or NGF history thread. Most answers have already been given.
If you still have questions, ask them in the proper thread (more than likely it will be the NGF History thread).

 

This post. This post right here; it's the highest point of this thread by far.

Yeah maybe you should've posted this a few pages ago, instead of animated reaction images.