If I may add something: The main issue is that there is a very good chance that Sony will not drop the price, but will silently move the Emulated PS2 PS3's into the US and Japan market. It is also the first time in a consoles history where the core model has been modified to such a great length where part of a main feature is lost (Granted, people could argue that for the NES/Famicom, but that is more or less the microphone being lost at the gain of detachable controllers). Plus, wasn't Sony bashing Microsoft a few months ago for it not having the entire Xbox library backwards compatable?
Can anyone back this up with a link? Not saying it's wrong, just that I haven't heard about any plans for this change to be extended beyond Europe.
Well, at this point, it is mostly a hunch. However, why else would Sony invest time to switch to full emulation in just one area of the world? In a business sense, they would eventually bring it over here as well to save costs.
If the target of the emulation is in the digital realm, I beg to differ! Hardware's actual implementation is very irrelevant, as long as it's correctly performs a function. The question is whether or not Sony will take the time to emulate anomalies of the PS2, if they are present, or just "wrap" the hardware for convenient HLE.
I can't be arsed to look for a link, but it was confirmed by Sony ages ago, they said they were moving towards software emulation from the start. Plus if you think about it, why the hell would they go to the expense to make and support 2 entirely different hard/software revisions when the new version is far cheaper and they can do more with it via software patches like with 360.
Maybe if the games didn't have 60hz mode it might be a problem (I assume thats why the PSP PS1 hacked emulator doesn't like PAL PS1 games?) but it should be able to handle everything else.
my learned friend, Subbie, made a good point about EE not being emulated bu rather existing under the hood. GS is not as capricious as EE, so there's some hope. Tachikoma, u say "far cheaper", and I m not sure how much cheaper that is. If they only remove GS, which is the most probable, how much do you estimate they d be saving? Keep in mind that developing the emu also has related costs.
Yes indeed Sony made a great deal about the 360 not being backwards compatible. Every fanboy and their dog slagged the 360 for that. Of all my mates who are into gaming I can only find one person who has placed an order for the PS3. He's going to be a bit miffed as he too was banging on about playing his PS2 titles on it....should I tell him the good news? ;-)
Sony is only making SOC waffers for the PS2/PS3 since the PStwo so making a separated EE just for the PS3 (seeing they want to keep the PS2 production for at least a couple years) is inefficient. Honestly I dont see PS2 emulation being better than in other complex systems like the Saturn.... Thats the irony in all this: if they dont do it (an nobody says shit about it) why should sony do it? The X360 backwards compatibility list may no longer updated yet nobody pays attention (gamers everywhere are too busy playing GoW) even when finding a Xbox will become pretty difficult (since MS stopped production altogether) while the PS2 will be in stores for quite a long time... Plus theres the Wii hype which pretty much resembles that of the PS2: both consoles were/are given extra credit while the rivals are putting better games (the Dreamcast and the X360). SEGA just gave up and saw the benefits of making cheap crappy games over expensive AAA titles, and Sony well, they have been doing that since the very beggining, specially with the PS2 and their big market share. The thing is, losing the hype race against a morbidly overpriced and obsolete system while yours is heavily subsidized with cutting edge tech only prooves my point: there's no reason to make a real effort in the market...
I wouldn't equate the Saturn to the Ps2, architecture-wise. The saturn had time-sensitive syncing and many bottlenecks relating to memory access etc, whereas the Emotion Engine is a capricious vector processor, with far fewer bottlenecks in the PS2's overall design. Ps2 = big tubes, small buckets, and as long as you can provide the bandwidth the rest shouldnt be a problem. EmotionEngine would be very hard to fully emulate in my view at least. The saturn is segmented and works like a moving puzzle, where there's always one space to make your next move.
I was only making a slight example cuz the Saturn was famous for being a pain to code for. I could come up with better examples but some people wouldnt get it...
Aren't Sony saying they intend to enhance PS2 support with firmware updates? How is that different to the current Microsoft policy? Shadowlayer hits the nail on the head for once - backward compatibility is just a PR stunt for launch. If you own PS2 games you most likely own a PS2, so it's a totally mute point ultimately. The only argument with this new revision is that Sony are charging more for less. The emulation is completely software except for the memory. By cutting out the EE/GS chip Sony save $25 a console, which is a huge saving for launch ($25million for first shipping alone).
Indeed, since the PS2 is going to be produced until 2009 (or even more) and at pretty low prices, it may be cheaper for sony than trying to make the games work on the PS3. On the other hand, BC on the X360 is vital since theres quite a list of must-have for the Xbox, and since theres issues with the part providers costs MS decided to halt all Xbox production, which is already making the console rare in some areas (therefore, you'll have to rely on the X360 for playing old titles in the near future).
Not that anybody cares but sony anounced the price of 1st party games. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23047 Sony has announced the company’s pricing plans for European first-party PS3 titles, revealing that disc-based games will cost 59.99€ / £39.99 ($79) at launch, on March 23, 2007. For reference, first-party Xbox 360 games have an official retail price of 64.99€ ($86) / £49.99 ($98) in Europe. Sony also confirmed that launch titles will include Motorstorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Genji: Days of the Blade, Ridge Racer 7 and Formula One Championship Edition.
Excellent news in that it is the same price (even if it is still expensive), Although most 360 games can be gotten for £40 online rather than the £50 quoted, It'll be interesting to see if there will be as large savings on PS3 games.
I was 1/2 right? http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/scee-responds-to-backward-compatability-239632.php Does this mean that the PS2 hardware chips have been removed completely and replaced with software-only emulation? The original PS3 used the Emotion Engine/Graphics Synthesiser to emulate PS2 titles. With the latest European specification we have removed the Emotion Engine, retaining the graphics chip. This has an impact on the number of PS2 titles that will be backwards compatible. If this is a business decision to save cost, why are users left to bear the burden, having to purchase a system inferior to those sold in the US and Japan at a higher price? The PS3 launching in Europe is every bit as powerful as the PS3s available currently in North America and Japan. PS3 is defined by key features such as the CELL broadband engine, its Blu-ray drive, the SIXAXIS Controller and its ability to output full 1080P HD game content which makes it an entertainment system for the future, without equal. PS one titles remain backwards compatible and we will continue to assess the compatibility of PS2 titles right up until launch We will continue to offer firmware upgrades to increase the number of titles that are compatible, but rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology.
oops Will the new updated hardware version improve the quality of the images of PS2 games on the PS3, as the current crop have been highly criticised? This has already been achieved by a firmware upgrade, which will be incorporated in European launch models. seems to me like existin PS3 units that are fully capable of b/c can upscale games, too. So much for that argument
The PS3 can't upscale the image of PS1 and PS2 [Edit - oops!] games. What he means is that the image quality issue/glitch with BC has been fixed with a firmware patch, but we already knew that. Yeah, seems SCEI clarified the chipset of the Euro machine, the CELL emulates the EE and the GS is on a new custom 65nm chip with the eDRAM accompanying it. I was wrong! They had to spend money to make that possible (rather than use the EE/GS single chip) so it seems a little strange - obviously they have decided that to completely emulate the PS2 is impossible and this new GS chip is the long term cost cutting solution. Expect it to become standard in all regions. Since the GS isn't emulated it seems unlikely we will see texture filtering etc. on PS2 games. If software emulation offered improved graphics in PS2 games then I would have been positive on the change in PS3 spec, but this has no obvious benefit. Europe has been screwed over.
I think arsTechnica or Joystiq priced it up as $50 for the chip, so $50 plus whatever they save in ancilliary components used in tandem with it, plus manufacturing time, etc etc.
