How long do you think the government shut down will last?

I haven't looked at those numbers but agree that is probably the case. The other thing about shootings is our media doesn't generally cover shootings that were cut short buy someone carrying a gun. (don't know if there are statistics to back that up either) You are right that it is definitely a culture thing. Guns have been deeply imbedded into our lives for a very long time. The USA is super polarized when it comes to almost everything (hence the deadlock we have in congress that this topic was started over) If you see a gun in california. It's scary because they look at it similarly to Europeans. How ever where I live (Utah-Idaho) you see a gun and it's no big deal. It's never been a problem and it's more likely to be a conversation starter then anything else.

 

The gun debate is a tricky one. On one hand, the European view IS right. Tighter gun control means less gun crime, certainly outside gang-related situations, anyway. It doesn't mean the end of it, of course. And yes, having been so used to something, it's hard, if not impossible, to get people out of that mindset. The whole large capacity magazines and semi-automatic weapons was ridiculous, though. There's no need for them. You DON'T need them to go hunting deer or control rabbits.

We do actually have guns here, they're most likely seen in the hands of farmers for pest control (rabbits and the like). And they'll have the same attitude you describe. You rarely see a mad farmer. And that's the problem - it's the crazy people having access to the guns that's scary. Like it or not, nobody's ever gone into a cinema strapped up like Rambo and gunned the audience down. Sure, we have crazies, but you don't tend to see gun massacres here. Gun related crime is usually someone shooting his wife's lover, or something similar.

There's a reason your media don't cover shootings cut short by someone with a gun... THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE CRAZY ENOUGH TO CARRY GUNS IN PUBLIC! Sod that, I'd keep well clear! lol

Anyway, let's not delve too far into politics (bit late, I know!) - that's what the political thread is for

 

As a someone born and raised in California I can assure that is not the case
Tho I do agree that it would be more "normal" the more you go inland

Also this

 

I get that this is an unfortunate situation, and that fighting to the point of a partial government shutdown isn't cool, but it's not like they can mind control crazy people with guns.

 

And its currently a partial government shutdown. If it continues to be shutdown more and more parts of the government will shutdown until only the necessities remain. This would be very bad as already there are around a million people not getting pay. Hopefully this all clears up by October 6th because if it doesn't then there will be more problems to deal with. And the gun issue is a difficult one to deal with because you can't control who will do mass shootings and background checks will not work very well since people that do mass shootings don't regularly have a history of insanity or crime. I think the first step though to fix the gun issue is to remove assault weapons from the general public since they are unnecessary and its hard to think of a practical use for any of them. But you would also need to shutdown the black market trade of guns as well otherwise someone that really wanted to kill people could head in that direction and buy from the black market. Another issue that will lead into immigration problems and border protection since that is the way these would be smuggled into America. But again I digress from the initial situation on that the government is shutdown and it should clear up within the next 3 days. Hopefully the country can remain clam enough not to go and shoot people up during that time...

 

Statistically you have a better chance of getting killed by knives, hammers, and blunt objects than assault weapons. Guns are very much embedded into the American way of life and protected under the 2nd amendment as a right. And if need be the guns would used as a means to protect themselves from the government if tyrants or totalitarian dictators were to rise to power. All these European advocates for disarming Americans act as if its a constant who is who of crazed psychopath with a gun looking to spray down some innocents. We may have more crime than other countries but we also have a much bigger population. A population just below the top 4 European countries(Russia included) population combined which statistically makes us more likely to have more crazed fanatics but also have citizens with the means to protect themselves. There have been various instances recorded in the media where an ordinary person with a gun prevented a murder or a robbing. Heavy duty crime will find a way to attain weapons regardless of gun control laws. Chicago is a good example of this since it is one of the strictest gun control areas in the United Stated and yet has a high crime rate.

In regards to healthcare, I don't advocate forcing people to buy something they don't need which on top of that is run by a very badly managed government falling trillions of dollars into debt. We'll be at 17 Trillion dollars soon enough which will be rapidly increased by this insurance scheme. Its ridiculous that we can't even balance our budget but our government is pushing for more spending with minimal cutting.

 

That is pathetic. Why is there not a higher percentage of Active Duty personnel instead of overpaid "tech reps"?

 

I lol'd.

Here is how I see things: the Republicans are claiming it's the senate's fault because the House passed something that had a giant turd on top. Normally what they pass is a delicious birthday cake and by law they have to eat this cake. Normally the senate is at worst hesitant to eat this cake because they're, naturally, watching their blood sugar levels on doctor's orders.

Now since they've sent a turd instead of a cake the Senate doesn't want to eat it and the Republicans are blaming the Senate for not eating this turd. Somehow they think this will get the public on their side rather than the Senate's side because everyone likes to eat giant, hot, steaming turds? Everyone I know who isn't a walk-step Tea Partier is pretty much against the House at this point and I'm praying most people will realize what's actually going on.

 

One of the biggest issues I see in baltimore is people with mental health issues not being treated, the same as skid row in hollywood, unfortunally these individuals are have to self treat themselves with street drugs or buy leaked perscription drugs.

Heck I can go down to north ave and get what ever I want perks zanax bars ect. Its a big industry. I don't of course but I know those that do and so does just about everyone.

That may change though as of 2013 they passed a bill to keep the drug industry from allowing the hush hush don't tell to continue. In fact 25% estimated private doctors are getting away with charging patients for things that never happened. I think we all can figure out how that medication is getting on the street.

 

It's not like the Democrats rammed this through while the American people screamed no. It's not like it's a bill that is so long that people are still discovering things that are in it and states and the federal government aren't sure how they are going to implement it. Even Massachusetts elected a Republican that ran on the promise that he would stop Obamacare. Basically forcing the house to pass what the senate had sent them. Fast forward Republicans get huge amounts of support in 2010 and manage to take the house. The main thing is Republicans have promised this as an outcome (Defund, Delay, Repeal, Replace) And if they don't continue to do this they will be replaced as representatives.

Congrats on your up close and personal view of the sausage making process!

 

Went to pay my credit card bill. There was a exclamation point that said "Import note about government shutdown" I click on it. Here's the message.

Looks like this is effecting a good chunk of people. I've never had a message like that before. (That includes the 2008 mess.)

 

If they control the army then you're dead no matter what. The 2nd amendment was only relevant when both sides had access to the same weapons.

Sure, but not as many as children find a gun and shoot themselves/siblings/parents. Or kids that take a gun to school and go on a killing spree.

Your homicides per 100,000 is 42 times higher than the uk, I don't think you can blame that on the population being 5 times higher. Although there are countries where gun crimes are much worse, they are countries you'd expect to need a gun though.

In a civilised country with a police force you have no real need for guns, it's just an ego boost.

 

Sexy right?

Right now it looks like a big hissy fit with the House holding the country government hostage for one thing they really don't like and if they don't get what they want they will continue to do exactly what they're doing until???

I can only envision one of several things happening:

1)Obama tosses the law out the door
2)Obama does nothing and the Republicans concede today to fight another day
3)Obama does nothing and the Republicans do nothing as well
4)Some stop gap measure is put in place that neither side really likes but the Republicans like a bit more than the Democrats which will cause them to trumpet their "victory"

I just want to see them all tried as traitors for not doing their damn jobs.

 

It is less likely that we could take on the army and win but with guns at least we would have a chance and not just roll over and give in. Without an armed population the government could easily take over. But honestly how many in the army would be willing to spray down Americans in their own country. The citizens they swore to protect. I expect the army would have a conflict within itself but anyways.
The Media over plays the tragedies like that just to push for gun control. Every gun owner must be responsible for their gun otherwise that happens. It may not completely account for such a high rate but it does make it much more likely to occur here. Where exactly is that rate sourced from because I couldn't find it? Wikipedia has us at a 4.7 percent and the UK at 1.2. I doubt that homicide rate is accounting for crimes with other kinds of weapons either not just guns which is what we're debating. People will find ways to kill each other without guns just like in that China school stabbing that happened on the same day of Sandy Hook: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing
Ego or not, I don't advocate giving up my rights bestowed to me by the constitution.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/16/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?hpt=po_c1
^^^ Looks like it will all be over soon. I imagine there is going to be hell to pay though for the republicans that vote for this.
"2)Obama does nothing and the Republicans concede today to fight another day" Looks like this is our outcome from what Ape considered. Democrats always did have the better footing but that more just brings to light the problems republicans have selling there message.

 

Its ridiculous and criminally stupid that this is still going on, it just goes to show you how far will some people take things if there's the slightest chance of getting away with what they want.

Funny thing, when you read some history a lot of great empires collapsed due to dumb shit like this.

Not with a bang, but with a "meh"

 

Can someone please explain to me why republicans have such a big problem with Obamacare? I'm really having trouble understanding why it seems so outrageous to provide health care to people who cant afford it.

 

health care is good but the basic gist i'm pretty sure is obamacare is significantly more expensive per person than the NHS and a lot of people aren't covered.

Obamacare is flawed and expensive, but as a firm believer in smaller governments than the huge privacy invading mess the current ones are I'd much rather expensive programs like PRISM and the farcical UK ISP block [which the ISP's maintain still won't work but a Tory woman with no IT qualifications from a shitty little town in the south is convinced it will so the puppet Cameron is going ahead with it] went first.

 

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303680404579141163473831736?mobile=y

Government has reopened.

 

Well it was a massive bill that we are still finding new things out about. 2000+ pages. The fact that the people that wrote it and are pushing it hardest are all getting exemptions to the plan. The fact that many peoples cost of insurance is doubling and the worst part is that most of this money doesn't go to those who can't afford it. It's going to build the structure of enforcement and administration. Many of us like to pick and choose what we need and don't need and will suffer the consequences our selves when the time comes. The worst part is I have no problem if other states want to to this. (California, Illinois, New Jersey eat your heart out and go for it) However the states I live in would never even float such an idea. (Utah, Idaho). Implement it in states that want to do it. Let them balance the needs and costs in a way that will work rather than enforcing a plan subsidizing it for the first few years and leaving States with a cost that they had no control in putting together. Let's basically take it in the opposite direction. Let's say the EU decides that the single health payer systems aren't working and mandates to ever country that is a member of the EU to stop doing and turn it over to private enterprise. Chances are you are going to be annoyed that a bunch of people in Brussels just dictated to you how your health care system works now.

Just my little rant on this. The thing is this tango we had with the shut down is going to happen again. The Republicans that let this deal go through are definitely going to have challengers further to the right. I can say that we will keep sending people that will be just as stubborn and hold fast like the Democrats did that won't cave. Republicans are feeling the same panic that Democrats did when Bush was in office and are working and learning the tricks the Democrats used to sway power in their direction.