Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 add-on,. Sonic Adventure, Soulstorm , confirmed 100%.

There were plenty of rumours centred on the Eclipse project in 1997, but ultimately what most people failed to recognise is how little say the likes of Andy Mee had in the operation of Sega, despite his position within the company's European division. AM2 and the rest of SOJ was not interested in the Eclipse, and it's possible the concept of a cartridge-based upgrade wasn't even known outside of the US where it had been first envisioned. Of course, we Europeans knew all about the idea, but even that was second-hand news and unlikely to have been sanctioned by the Japanese. As mentioned in an earlier post, VF3 was being developed to run on stock hardware, though I guess a separate version could have been in the works outside of Yu Suzuki's supervision purely as a tech demo for the Eclipse.

Another consistent rumour is that VF3 was intended as the first of many Model 3 to Saturn conversions, with SCUD Race the planned follow-up. Sega of America didn't create Eclipse just for one title so it's likely this was being earmarked as the second showcase for its upgrade, yet at the same time we have since learned that VF3 was being developed elsewhere without the needs for any add-on. On the other hand, Core Design was linked to Eclipse through the rumoured Saturn conversion of Tomb Raider II (which can be very much confirmed) and SCUD Race. Of the latter, only the Katana development kit version can be directly linked to Core. However, considering their involvement with this game I'd wager they had at least contemplated a Saturn version, if not actually started work on such a thing. Again, whether this was carried out in competition with AM2's own attempt remains to be seen.

Based on the amount of work being put into VF3 - and the Shenmue prototype, I should add - in 1997/1998, I'd say it's highly unlikely Yu Suzuki's team was thinking too much about SCUD Race for Saturn... maybe this would have been AM2's first game for the Dreamcast had Genki not satisfied demand by producing its own version of VF3 instead? Quickly on the subject of Sonic Adventure's 32-bit origins, that interview with Yuji Naka points to a very small period of time when the project moved to Dreamcast. With its producer on the design team behind Sega's new console, Naka would have surely known about the Dreamcast early enough to suggest moving development at a point when it would have made sense to switch platform as opposed to just finishing off a near-complete title, hence the inclusion of Sonic World in Jam as a teaser until Adventure was ready to be unveiled as the first real killer app for the Saturn's successor. By the way, in my opinion this is quickly growing into a fantastic discussion!

 

sorry to barge in this discussion, but support for the Eclipse peripheral could be just optional for VF3 - perhaps adding filtered textures, higher resolution (more ram inside the eclpse?), better geometry and effects?

just making assumptions, although in my mind they don't seem far fetched.

 

Those aren't far fetched ideas by any means, though again I can only imagine such improvements being applicable to Virtua Fighter 3 if Sega of America had its own conversion in the works. As I've said before, it's been confirmed by Yu Suzuki that AM2 was not using any kind of upgrade - Eclipse or otherwise - in its Saturn version of VF3 (and that includes the Shenmue prototype as well, I should add). Still, I guess certain games could have used the cartridge accelerator to boost performance in such fields as polygonal detail and texture quality/filtering. Does anyone know if such an upgrade would have been possible, or would the Eclipse have worked differently to the 4Mb RAM cartridge? I could very easily picture a game like Tomb Raider II being almost PC-like with the Eclipse and vastly reduced without, but that's a presumption on my part...

 

I doubt the cart would have worked that way. If such a device existed it would have had a new video out on it and used the rest of the Saturn as a slave. Pure speculation, of course.

 

Just like a 32x...considering the structure of saturn..i doubt something like that was considered.... it should have got an own cpu, at least...

 

It would probably be the other way around.

 

If it sat in the back port with the backup battery, it could have clipped shut and had another AV out, without sacrificing the smooth looks of the Saturn.

Also, hey! I liked Sonic 3D.

 

Sonic 3D wasn't a bad isometric game - it was a very bad Sonic game.

 

x

 

That's a classic interview. I've used the link-up part in the past in a Segacollection.com feature. I actually like most of Andy's views and opinions, very honest. I always wondered about 'SoulStorm'. Couldn't find any references to that game..

 

Even if the Saturn got an upgrade unit for VF3, there is no way it would've been anywhere remotely close to Model 3.

Lets not forget what Model 3 was-- a very high-end arcade board with not one, but TWO high-end GPUs, 2x Real3D/Pro-1000. Each of which was several times more powerful than the Model 2 board, and also several times more powerful than the best, most respected consumer PC 3D chips such as 3DFX Voodoo Graphics and even 3DO M2.

The only chipset that would've provided a reasonable FRACTION of Model 3 performance & quality was the Real3D/100, which although was mistaken to be the consumer chipset Lockheed was bringing to PCs, turned out to be an upper mid-range professional chipset that was still too expensive for consumer PC cards or game consoles in 1996-1997.

I believe that the stock Saturn, without upgrade, was totally incapable of running a version of VF3 that looked anything like the arcade. Sure, Sega may have had 1 or 2 versions of VF3 running on Saturn, but there's no way they'd look anything more than, say, AfterBurner on the Master System, an enourmous downgrade from the arcade.

Even a decent 3D chip such as 3Dfx Voodoo, PowerVR PCX1/PCX2, or 3DO M2, would've only allowed for a merely decent but still much downgraded conversion of VF3. One of these chips would've allowed decent 3D polygon graphics to be done, something the Saturn could not really do well at all. The best 3D games on Saturn looked like a mess compared to low-end 3D tech such as Nintendo 64 or 3Dfx Voodoo Graphics.

If the Model 3 board was a Ferrari, the stock Saturn was a Fort Escort, a car that cannot be used for racing. So something like 3Dfx Voodoo, Nintendo 64, PowerVR1, 3DO M2, would only be, say, a Chevy Camero. Not in the same class as a Ferrari, but allows you to race a bit.

The article in the OP also gave no indication that Saturn was really getting a 3D upgrade chip, or what it was. I do believe that a 3D upgrade for Saturn existed. Sega was working or talking with, every major 3D chip designer or startup in the industry from 1994/1995 to 1997. Nvidia (NV2), Lockheed Martin, 3DO M2, PowerVR1, 3Dfx Voodoo, just to name a few. Sega worked on plans (if not actual hardware) of various upgrades for Saturn, replacements for Saturn, before finally settling on Katana/Dreamcast in 1997.

I really do wish that the Japanese Saturn of 1994 had never been released in the U.S. I wish that Sega had designed the American Saturn with proper 3D chip technology for 1996. Even if it was released in Japan as 'Saturn 2'. Sega should've designed something the equivalent of M2 if not somewhat more powerful, with PowerVR, 3Dfx or Lockheed. Even though it would not have Model 3 performance, having something like 1/3 or 1/2 of Model 3 performance would allow for decent conversions. This console would go from 1996 to 2000/2001, and there would be no Dreamcast. The succssor to this proper 3D Saturn would then be more powerful than Dreamcast, the equivalent of the Xbox or GameCube if not somewhat more powerful. And the successor to that console, what would be current now, would combined the power of Xbox360/PS3 with the inovation of Wii and MotionPlus, or 'Natal' or Sony's motion-tech.

 

Come on mate, that's just not true. When you've seen as many Saturn games as I have you'll know that there is some 3D on the system that looks very nice. Dead or Alive is a common but impressive example. True, a lot of 3D on the Saturn looks awful but there are good examples out there that still look better now than the washed out blur that is N64.

Yakumo

PS: I fully agree that even with an upgrade the Saturn could never pull off Model 3 visuals. that's just crazy. Model 2, maybe yes but never model 3.

 

Honestly it's really sad that Virtua Fighter 3 didn't get an arcade perfect port. Just like sega rally 2 it was a victim of being rushed to the market. Of course Sega Rally 2 situation didn't help with Microsoft's instance of having a game using windows ce libraries.

Honestly I felt there were time the saturn did 3d better then the psx.
One advantage it had was it didn't have that annoying issue with 3d break up, i.e. random lines through the 3d that made it look like the 3d was broken up into puzzle pieces.

I swear on this board the number one topic that always comes up is virtua fighter 3 on Saturn. Will this topic be laid to rest if Sega ever shows footage of Saturn viruta fighter 3 like they did with shenmue?

 

Soul Storm is an alternative name for Oddworld Abe's Oddysee as far as I know.I'm pretty sure the Saturn was more than capable of doing that.

Also to those saying that Sonic X-treme sucked,well no one knows.They only playable thing we have is a proof of concept test build and nothing else.Sure there are some videos from the PC version Alon and Senn were working on and they don't impress me very much,but we have no clue what the Saturn team,that the rest and most of the team was working on looked like in the later stages of development.I'm pretty sure such a thing is in the hands of a private collector and truth be told,it shall stay there.I'm fed up with all those guys coming out and saying that Sonic X-treme would have been awesome.There's no way we can know that!What is very interesting on the whole project is the politics and the many twists.Damn Senn could easily make a book about it

Also I want to emphasise on what Naka says,that it was impossible to release Sonic Adventure on PC.He also mentions the Voodoo 2 saying that it was far less capable than the graphics subsystem of the Dreamcast.I don't doubt him,but I'm not so sure about that last statement.Anyone cares to elaborate?

 

it's a fact that a game like Sonic was only really possible during the megadrive era. in the same manner, even if they did pull off a decent 3D sonic on the Saturn, it would have been running in limited capacity, affecting gameplay. They should just make a GOOD 2D Sonic for Saturn and leave 3D for the next round imo.

 

x

 

speculation is like masturbation. It's in your mind, it's fun, and there are no come-backs.

 

Interesting! I knew Oddworld was Saturn bound, but like said, I couldn't find any references to the 'SoulStorm' name. Investigation starts

 

I agree on this one.We have yet to see an excellent Sonic game since the Megadrive games.Sonic Adventure was good but still the older games' gameplay just didn't translate nearly as well in 3D.

 

Abe Oddysee was coming out on the Saturn at one point until another one of those back handers from Sony stopped it.

Yakumo