Yeah, it was the DVD player, which is why Sony is trying desperately to push BD-ROM. I don't think it's going to work this time around, since DVDs can deliver movies pretty much perfectly. Yeah, Dreamcast can do many things superiorly to PS2, at least in games from the time both systems were active. I heard the Ikaruga thing too... but wasn't that something about the PSX not being able to run Silvergun? Or did that happen twice? Another example is the PS2 port of Grandia II. I'm a fan of the Grandia series, so I own both versions (and the PC one), and the PS2 one is just PISS poor. It ocassionally goes down to 15 frames per second, it has weird graphical glitches, and the 2D looks somewhat blurry. One of my friends summarised it quite completely: There's few games far between that show the true greatness that PS2 is capable of delivering. The rest, could have easily been done on Dreamcast, perhaps with even better graphics. The DVD factor, "emotion engine" hype, and Sony's marketing machine (plus some Microsoft effort) is what killed the Dreamcast. It's sad when a console that's superior doesn't outlive its competition.
Well, I thought I'd take a rare stab at this discussion after reading the entire thread... Two things really stick out in my mind that I can remember about the two distinct launches between Sony and Sega. First, before the DC came out I remember Sega promising it could do a maximum of 3 million polygons p/sec. I think we all know that the DC can do more than that. I remember reading quite a few technical analysis stating the numerous software rendering tricks to squeeze more out of the DC. And 3 million pps was definitely doable, yet so much more was actually achievable. (hence underpromise overdeliver) Now prior to the launch of the PS2, I remember distinctly reading a spec sheet comparing PS2 and DC. For any of you that recall this, I think its downright laughable. I chuckle now even thinking about it, but at the time it made me furious b/c I knew it wasn't true, yet they were beginning to get ahold of people's imagination and people were buying into Sony's lies. The sheet stated that the PS2 could do 60 million polygons/sec! I think that's absolutely ridiculous. But for those not in the know, at the time, I think they roped a lot of people in b/c 60 > 3, so yeah, I'll get the PS2 instead. And we all know how close technically the PS2 and DC are. (hence overpromise and underdeliver, the classic Sony philosophy)
Quoted for truth. It was all too evident for us early adopters, yet for some reason few people seem to remember this. Look at ODCM's list of the top DC games in their last issue...20 or so games were truly considered great, the rest were all so-so ports, Acclaim crap, or licensed garbage. Yet the DC is often looked back upon as some sort of savior for hardcore gamers. Sure, Shenmue and Soul Calibur were great, but it wasn't that great. Maybe to those who picked up a DC after it died for $30, but those of us who were there from the beginning remember the delays and the so-so releases with the PS2 launch looming in the distance.
I really enjoyed my Dreamcast, purchased at launch btw, but it was really a stop-gap for myself. There were some good games at launch, some soon after, but the true impact of the system was for that first year after the launch (and my purchase) of a PS2. There were ZERO games released for the PS2 that kept my interest. For a year there the only games I had were SSX Tricky, FFX, NBA Street and FIFA. I didn't get any games for about a year, but in that same time period I got about 40 or 50 Dreamcast games. At that one year mark, the PS2 rebounded and I began to get more games for the PS2. Funny thing though is after the DC died, and Xbox came out, I went more towards the Xbox instead of the PS2. I actually found that most of my gaming needs were covered with the Xbox, and Gamecube (had to get the Zelda, and Mario games) My breakdowns right now are: 217 Xbox 155 PS2 84 DC 77 GCN
Is ironic that in every generation the most powerful console always gets behind the low powered ones. Shit, in fact most of the time the most weak ones were the winners: 2600, Nes, PSX and PS2
Yep, the GB is one of those miracles of history. After all, if automotive were like videogames we should be driving steam/coal cars instead.
You can't compare ports of games. Grandia II was developed with Dreamcast in mind. And yes, the Dreamcast is superior to PS2 in some ways, that's why the port is not great. I have Grandia II for PS2, and i love it, despite slowdowns and any other drawbacks. Ports and multi-platform games can't be used to compare consoles. Remember Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 being better in PS2 instead of Xbox and Gamecube? EA developed the whole game with PS2 in mind, and gave other dev the job of porting the code to Xbox and Gamecube. Just because the PS2 version is the best, it does not make it the best console. And yes, i agree when a superior system don't win. Master System was way better than NES, but Nintendo owned all third-parties by contract. I own PS1 and PS2, mostly because the games, and not Sony. I hate Sony products for quite some time. My PC monitor is having weird problems day one. My living room 29' Wega TV, is already having problems. But i can't stop the fact that the PS2 has the majority of games i'm interested. Damn, even OutRun 2 will be released (Of course not even close to the Xbox port). Resident Evil 4 only for Gamecube? After some time, Capcom woke up and ported it (it's a great port by the way). To steal "casual gamers", the majority these days, any console must have lots of third-party support. Xbox don't have that, not even Nintendo.Nintendo thinks they'll have success only with Mario, Zelda and Cia. Sorry but they won't.
I'm not saying I hate Grandia 2 for the PS2, but it is a REALLY poor port that could have been seriously better. I did buy it, though - and played it to the end twice. I have a PS2 (which died) and now a PSTwo for the great games it does have - you know, like DQ8, R-Type Final, Gradius V, Breath of Fire V, ZOE2, Ace Combat, etc. And I'm pretty sure many of those wouldn't work on Dreamcast. I never did get myself to buy a Gamecube (though I'm interested in getting one eventually), or an XBox (though it'd be nice for emulators and stuff). I think the problem might be this generation was quite weak for me, compared to the 32 bit generation. And the next one might be as well. Maybe it's a result of Sony's domination and marketing techniques... or something?
i will put it this way, dc had a way better ratio of good to crap in their libary compared to that of the ps2. What sold the ps2 was pretty much the fact so many people had a playstation and it becaem like the next "nintendo" in that it was used to generalize video games. As well people mostly got excited that not only did it have dvd support, but as well as backwards compatibility which was a HUGE deal to many. Whats funny is those 2 features are now fully overlooked. But it did help them achive alot. If anything what sony did was bring in people who werent exactly into video games, but had some remote fun playing them, what you would like to call casual people. Thus led to microsoft wanting a piece of the pie and the industry somewhat repeating the atari age, though things look bright these days.
I like my GC but i think the GC was just a system so they could (prepare) for the next gen, they didnt advertise it or push it in any way (therefore saving money). IMO it was a filler system. now the revolution......it will be the MEGATON!!! LOL
They are overlooked simply by the fact that today you can buy a cheap DVD Player that has tons of features, including Progressive Scan (Only PS2's after 5001 support Progressive Scan for movies). But at the PS2 Launch, DVD was " the new thing ". PS1 games support was and still is one of the PS2's best features. They launched it with already 1000+ games avaiable, like it or not. A brand new game console + DVD Player + CD Player + PS1 backward support. How can this fail? [small rant mode=on] Add to the fact that SEGA was lazy to support it's own console. Why they haven't released games such as OutRun, After Burner, Shinobi, Panzer Dragoon, Alex Kidd, and tons of others for the DC? Arcade games like Daytona USA 2, Emergency Call Ambulance, Fighting Vipers 2, Scud Race (Super GT), Planet Harriers, ... only needed a port for the DC. I remember the 8 bit / 16 bit generation where they ported everything they could from arcades to home consoles. Why they stopped doing that? Plus they "dropped the towel" too fast. Today SEGA continues to make great arcade games, but the home console games are average at best: Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog, Sega Rally 2006, Aero Elite Academy, Project Altered Beast, Astro Boy, ... Thank god there are exceptions like Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution (Best fighting game, in my opinion) and OutRun 2. Plus it's sports division, Visual Concepts, always make good games. And some new games are promising like Ryu Ga Gotoku and Phantasy Star Universe. This may sound dumb, but i'm from a time where SEGA owned everybody else as a game company. This means quality, quantity and creativity. [/small rant mode]
For the simple reason that they couldn't afford to. Sega lost a lot with the 32X, Mega CD and Saturn. They could no longer afford to be making as many arcade conversions as they wanted. Also in Japan Sega DID support the Dreamcast well !! TV adds on all the time at major time slots, massive magazine features, always promotional activities going on at Sega arcades and stores!! One TV show even used Dreamcasts with Seaman as part of the show every week ! But it wasn't enough. Sony already had their foot in the door with the hit that was the PlayStation and it was unlikely that there followers were going to divert to another company after being treated so well by Sony (actually Sega treated Saturn users better with free stuff but that's a different story). that's why I want Sony to fail this time round. It's getting stale and very boring every time I walk in to a games store and look at the chart. The top 10 is almost always bloody PS2 stuff. May as well not bother with a chart. Oh, forgot to mention they are far too cocky now anyway and should pay the price for making shit quality goods. I see the Sony brand name and think "Stay Away" because I know it will be bust well before the guarantee runs out. Yakumo
(Source: http://www.ibiblio.org/GameBytes/issue21/flooks/preality.html) How about that? I remember lots of rubbish about the Ultra 64 being able to reproduce the effects in Jurassic Park and T2 but ending up with a lot of chunky blurry games.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the PS2 can handle around 11 million polys. Didn't Microsoft state the XBox could draw over 100 million? :>
