Virtua Fighter 4 dreamcast ...any info??

Virtua Fighter Three.

Anthima is right in his post about many things, but there are still a few "leaps of faith" and speculation with his recounting where there simply is'nt enough documented evidence to tell the whole story.

Anyway, he's listed without naming one person that was in the meeting in SOE that did see the final VF3, I'd like to name the others but they are all active in the industry still and so It's not correct for me to do so.

The story that VF3 was held off the Saturn for the benifit of the Dreamcast is part truth and PR spin.

What actually happened, (I can provide no evidence just my word, so believe it or not) was that Sega didn't want to make Yu Suzuki loose face and so offered a deal. You've got to remember that this guy made a lot of money for Sega, was very respected and held a lot of power to an extent. IF he could secure a set number of orders in all territories for the game then Sega would release VF3 for the Saturn. The thing is the number set was unrealistic and the bosses at Sega knew he's not going to reach that figure. Remember that a title like Panzer Draggon only made 11,000PCS for USA and 24,000PCS for Europe. They also argued that Last Bronx performed badly.

This is why the game was shown by him in the three territories, it was a sales order drive. Yes, Sega wanted to focus on the Dreamcast and the story of why it was held off the Saturn isn't the whole truth.

 

Well, Last Bronx graphically could do nothing against SOUL EDGE.

Saturn was received bad treatment because of it's graphics... only when Burning Rangers, Deep Fear and PDS arrived (too late...) people realized it's potential.

VF3 was the "punch in the table" all Saturn fans were waiting way back, and it's not necessary to say what would have happenned if VF3 reached Saturn with PDS (RPG!!! FFVII counter!) before 1998.....

A decent SEGA TOURING CAR, ...VIRTUA FIGHTER 3 and PDS + Deep Fear would have managed a best future for Saturn...

But hey, ...not in the fucking 1998

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Deep Fear was never going to be enough on its own to keep the Saturn alive, and I doubt even the combined force of Panzer Dragoon Saga and a decent conversion of Sega Touring Car would have done it, either - RPG titles are known for getting critical acclaim and love from gamers, but in terms of sales has there ever been an example of this genre that has set the charts alight, especially back in the Saturn/PlayStation days (well, maybe except for the obvious Final Fantasy VII)?

As for assumptions, speculation and leaps of faith, I must emphasise that I have only written about what I read - none of my last message was created personally, but compiled from a combination of hard fact and the views of those in the know. Of course, I've no way of knowing who saw Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 or exactly why it was cancelled as I'm not fortunate enough to have contacts within Sega, though if exsegadev lives up to his name I look forward to many further discussions on this subject as it's something a lot of people here - myself definitely included - would like to know more about...

As for the suggestion that VF3 was cancelled because not enough sales could be guaranteed in all territories, this is a bombshell as it contradicts all previous knowledge I have acquired regarding this long-lost Saturn game. From what I was able to figure out, the second revision of VF3 was planned for a simultaneous PAL release to coincide with the domestic Japanese version, though I've never heard of there being a US edition before now - unless I read this wrong, that is! I was under the impression that Sega of America had given up on the Saturn by the time of VF3's proposed release (September 1998) , but for something that important I'm not doubting for a second that views may have changed to allow for one last "punch in the table," so to speak.

Considering how many units of VF2 were shifted in Japan and the continued support for the Saturn there many years after it had been abandoned elsewhere, I'm not sure this angle is entirely to blame for the absence of VF3 from the system. One thing I am sure of is that Sega was afraid to upset Yu Suzuki, but his silence on the subject of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 today proves just how much damage was ultimately done.

Finally, we should respect the wisdom of exsegadev for not disclosing the names of those who actually did get to witness Saturn VF3, and far from being a dead end this opens up many new possibilities as it does confirm that the game did exist after all - a killer blow if ever there was one to those who still believe to the contrary, despite Yu Suzuki's word. Continuing on from that point, I guess I was correct on most of the other details, such as the performance figures and methods AM2 used to extract previously unseen levels of graphical quality from the Saturn for this game?

Those particular fragments of information came to me from various sources, including discussions with certain people within Sega at the time who knew of VF3's existence along with other titles later cancelled (Sonic The Fighters, etc). Also, there were other sightings of Saturn VF3 apart from the SOE showing we know of, and it has been suggested that a correspondent for SSM got to see the second revision (which he described as "a basic version") up and running in Japan - could this have been the rumoured Tokyo Game Show backstage preview, or perhaps another held within the Sega/AM2 offices?

Last but certainly not least, if exsegadev is confirming that Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 really did exist and was shown many times - including at Sega Europe to select in-house employees and possibly journalists as well, all under the greatest of secrecy - then does this mean that copies of the game may still exist? I don't think we'll get to see this one in a hurry, but I'm probably never going to give up hope... after all, stranger things have happened before - just look at the video of Shenmue Saturn Version, for example!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyJfiO3INrc

 

MMmm i think that video is not the saturn version...

Or maybe yes.... look at the game... when lau face is near there is a really complex character... but when pai fights jacky it's different, and the movement is really different to the arcade...

strange....

 

No way in hell that's running on a Saturn. The geometry in Saturn Shenmue was less complicated than that and it ran at what, like 12fps most of the time? That looks like it's running at 30fps or maybe more. Plus, Lau's face looks like it was texture-smoothed, something the Saturn is not capable of doing.

 

well shenmue scenarios are not like vf3 scenarios..you know... shenmue kind of game on a 32 bit system is something REALLY complex..

a fighting game doesn't have big scenarios, lot of people, real time playing like shenmue etc..

but by the way, i'm 90% sure that video is not sega saturn...but there's that 10%...

 

afaik that video was from 96 when they advertised the model3 arcadeboard

 

That last 15 first party Saturn games for Europe were decided late 1998. Marketing and sales sat down looks at the schedule and picked a small range of games to keep the pilot light running through 1998, Resident evil clone, Racing game, FPS ect. A small range to cover the year. By this time they knew no game would bring back the Saturn, hardware orders has stopped and they were just selling through. There was also an added bonus of the GT Interactive games there were relases, cheap ports of PSX stuff courier Crisis, area 51 and that demolition guy with the hammer with very favorable pubishing terms. Some personal frendship got this working.

I dont know all that much stuff, but I'll help with what I can.

You've missed the point, Sega didn't want it so they made terms to get a certain number of orders and they would release it. It was a con, Sega knew that those orders would never be there. The Saturn was all but dead.

He is upset and I think he knew the offer was a bad one.

It was spoken about on game-online.com (UK?) at the time, sites long gone after Emap got out of game magazines. I'd recommend doing some investigating at the Mean Machines archive.

He carried the disc with him in his attache case. no discs were ever out of his possesion at any time. The showings were not many times, just a very very few, and for the purpose I've already indicated.

And that youtube link is'nt the Saturn version

 

wise words those from exsegadev.

I must add what i think...

Back in the day, every guy reading console magazines in spain (big ones like Superjuegos, HobbyConsolas, etc) was knowing that some day the bomb got to fall..

That bomb was vf3, and it was a bomb because almost everyone on earth, psx or n64 owner, new that am2 doesn't like joke,. and if they said a decent sega saturn conversion from the model 3 would came, that means the "soooo talked" internal saturn potential would be unleashed...

But as the time was coming, and Sega marketing was TOTAL CRAP or INEXISTENT (how the hell the company with the most aggressive themes and characters ever didn't manage to do good campaigns after 1994???)

People realized that Vf3 only can't save the saturn...

Well, maybe just imagine this...

-DECENT SEGA TOURING CAR BY MIZUGICHI PERSONALLY
-SONIC ADVENTURE that was in progress
-PANZER DRAGOON SAGA
-DEEP FEAR
-QUAKE
-VIRTUA FIGHTER 3
-SHENMUE

if you'll add some canceled games to make bigger the number of released, men, that's a really great line-up for 1998 ... but i return to say, VERY IMPORTANT the fact that sega touring car most look even better than sega rally... all those games made with the new sega libraries , and the shenmue saturn style, damn, those games would have kicked asses visually, and the rest is just like a snow ball running on a mountain...

But hey, time gone and now it's tooooooooooooooooooooooooo late for saturn, i must say, i hope someday we can get some visuals or proto of those games...

-Sorry for my english

 

Hmm must say this thread is starting to become rather interesting mostly thanks to the posts by Exsegadev (and credit where due) Antheamia.

One person of SOE who must have seen VF3 at one time or another would be Mark Maslowicz. Then there's the likes of Mark H. etc and from the sound of it ExSegadev would fit right in there (in that arm of SOE not the list of people who saw VF3)

The part about the GT releases (Maximum Force, Trash it! and the like) also pretty much confirms what I expected about why they were released (while the other third parties stopped their support). Not sure about Trash it and Courier Crisis but hey at least it wasn't Barb Wire. I presume the GT friendship was helped a lot by the whole Quake deal.

Another game that would've at least helped (software) sales would've been a decent port of HOTD. I was disappointed with that one.

 

Saturn HOTD was great to play, just looked like crap. Same goes for Touring Cars. Looks at alot better than Sega Rally but the frame rate was a big let down. Still, I like it for a quick blast.

Yakumo

 

Yeah that's basicly the biggest problem I have with it.

 

Segafreak_NL, If this was a game of charards, I'd be touching my nose and pointing at you...

Yakumo, you do know the reason that you dont think Touring cars is that bad is becuase you play the JPN version, that had longer in development and the controls have been tweeked. All the hate comes from the western versions. Just something I realised listening to one of your Retrocores.

 

Really? I never knew that the western version had different controlls. Looks like that's another to add to the list of rushes western ports

Yakumo

 

A huge deal of the atmosphere in HOTD came from the monsters and the mansion graphics. Well it's that mansion that became a pixelated mess in the Saturn version. Sure the gameplay still pretty much in-tact and the Saturn mode was pretty cool (especially the guy with the heavy one-shot gun) but overall I was disappointed because it could've been so much better..

 

Yes but no money and hurry...you know..the perfect combination..

The damn thing is that SEGA already got it by the way in the 90's... if they should have released the damend virtua fighter 3 when it was to be released (not so late in end 98 plus a poor effort for dreamcast...)

Things would be managed different...

 

Where is the evidence? It's just speculation. You say it like it is fact. I do not doubt that a version was in the works, but 2 complete? BS, plain and simple.

Laugh! Near Model 3 levels, on a Saturn? You are smoking some wild crack there boy. They couldn't even bring full 3D to VF2, not even Shun's Bridge. Fighting Vipers was low res so they could add some 3D rings. Fighting Vipers was low res. And again: where is your evidence?

Transparencies, 750k PPS @ 30FPS, full 3D arenas. You are insane! As you put it, on with the story:

So convenient. Why on earth wouldn't they show the game after canning Shemue on the Saturn then showing it? They even have a showcase of VF protos on the DC VF3TB disc. Why no video of the Saturn version there? Why have we never seen screenshots or videos, even after all this time? Why would the press be scared to ask him about it after all this time?

But instead we have to suffer this endless rumour milling from desperate Sega fanboys. Funny how things turn out, eh?

Well Fox Mulder, you'd better watch out because the SEGA police are coming up the hall and are about to cave your head in with a Virtua Arcade Stick. OMG! Yu Suzuki is hammering at the door now! Run!

 

you guys are so funny =p no offence btw, just enjoying the "little court session" =p

 

Look at shenmue saturn.

That's 750.000 polygons / second (well., at 15-20fps) with ILLUMINATION EFFECTS and transparencies...

Anthaemia never said saturn "reached model 3" ...but with the technique used on shenmue saturn, (AND REMEMBER...) a fighting game is not a game like shenmue with BIG AND ULTRA DETAILED scenarios all the way...

Virtua Fighter 3 at 750.000 polygons at 30fps with transparencies would have been possible.

And the transparencies thing...men... panzer dragoon saga...more words needed???