WARNING: SCAMMERS TWILIGHT, MELMAC

Its come to my attention that a registered user here is issuing a paypal charge-back against another user. I'll keep the sellers name out of this for privacy reasons, but its a well known person in the community.

The user who is issuing the charge-back is Twilight who used Melmac as a middle man. He claims that the discs that were sold to him aren't different enough from retail to warrant the price he paid. As everyone knows, sales are buyer beware and its up to you to ask questions before purchasing.

This is just a warning to anyone dealing with these two right now. I'd recommend you cease any deals you have going on with these users. More details will be posted if they are required.

The complaint? :

Free Previews?! A liar as well.

 

good job on letting community know what's going on.

 

I just want to get my money back for bad product.

 

As you've told me over PM, you are largely ignorant of common terms that are used in prototype communities. The burden is on YOU to do your homework and learn what certain terms mean. Purchasing a prototype does not guarantee you one with a debug menu and all sorts of fancy pre-production content. You expected the world and now are expecting to get a refund on CD BASED MEDIA which can EASILY be copied. That's just not acceptable.

 

He refused to send photos to me. He claimed that they were beta versions. I receive printable CD-R's which contained 10% of bad blocks.

The ammount of information in bytes on these CDs corresponds to final releases as 1:1.

My friend does not know all the details. He just transferred money. The cause of dispute he wrote. Without my control. He badly familiar with all this.

I only asked him to try to return the money.

 

90% of all betas are usually stored on cdr, this is normal.

for the game being identical bytewise you just had bad luck, this can happen. especially if something is sent out for review, its usually the final version.

i'm guessing the disc in question is from the playstation era - since the ps1 debuggers all play direct game copies too and unlike ps2 do not even need their headers changed to run on debug consoles its very likely you sometimes get a copy identical to the final retail version. bad luck, but nothing uncommon and definately not a scam.

 

He didn't said that it could be preview/review versions. He announced that it was beta versions.

I know that the alpha/beta etc. versions stored on CD-R. It's stupid not to know it.

 

some people...

Wow this is just low...

Just because a demo/beta/debug/whatever comes on a burnable doesn't mean that its not legit. Whats to say that the disk you got wasn't a one off the sent to QA to verify everything was okay before they went gold. thus being essentially the final version. Because of that its a known fact that some games copy protection schemes involve bad sectors to prevent copying, thus your bad blocks.

The term beta is very loose (especially in the gaming industry), hell we still have production ready systems and services that people use everyday that are labelled as beta, just look at gmail. its been in beta since late 2003 and still going strong.

Also two things strike me here. 1) The only way you would know if it has bad blocks is if you where trying to copy it using alchohol 120% or whatever. 2) the only way your going to find out if its a 1:1 copy is if you successfully ripped it and did a md5sum or what-have-you on a copy you already have and this rip you just made.

bad form dude, bad form. :evil:

 

Multiple development game status officially:

On many disks there are the following:

ALPHA BETA in one box
and PREVIEW REVIEW as the status in another box.

I have seen multiple PlayStation disks like this because companies were sending out games this way with media.

For all of these disks, either ALPHA or BETA was chosen AS WELL as PREVIEW or REVIEW.

It's one or the other. Even if it's a reviewable disk, it's BETA. What you are looking for is basically BETA Previewable, or ALPHA Previewable.

Lots of other CDr Betas do not have REVIEW or PREVIEW on them, so the only way you can find out what they are is to compare the data on the two byte for byte.

Bottom line, they're mostly Betas if they aren't the Final version, but they are either Previewable or Reviewable versions. On very rare occasions, there will be Alpha versions.

Sounds convoluted, but it's not. It's more of an issue of you wanting something specific.

It's potluck on these things honestly, unless someone knows the game(s) in question very well, but phate is right, you aren't really up to speed on the correct definition of the word "beta", which is not going to go well if you ever try buying anything development related on video game forums.

 

b&...

I think that someone needs to take a healthydose of ban and gtfo.

here let me show you how its applied:



:lol:

 

Jeez, chargebacks. Kudos to dot50cal and the seller.

 

If the seller can prove that what he sold to him was indeed a beta and that it was not a 1:1 copy of the retail version, then twilight's claim is false. But if he fails to provide proof, then the buyer's claim is valid.

If Twilight feels that what he bought is not what the seller claimed to be, then he has every right to file the charge back claim.

Both members had to communicate properly in order to determine if one man's definition of the word beta is the same as the other because beta means two different things, to two different people.

IF the seller made claims on his item and ignored picture/screenshot requests from the potential buyer, then that is a cause for concern that the buyer should have taken into consideration.

To all the sellers: If you are selling something that is in this category, make sure you do research on the item to be make sure it is a beta, or an alpha, or simply a rare build of the game/software. If you are unsure, then simply state it and claim that you do not take any responsibility if the item is or is not a preview/beta copy. Also, do not expect to sell it at a high price, but if you know what it has and determine if the content is indeed rare, then you can charge whatever price you deem is fair.

To the buyer: don't always trust the seller, never. Do your own research, ask questions. And if the seller fails to communicate the way you requested, then please take extra caution on continuing the deal.

What is the seller's name?

 

madhatter256: I am the seller. My items are 100% authentic, and they speak for themselves if you've ever bought anything from me. I don't make copies of anything. Trust me with what I say that what he got from me is 100% beta, it just happens to be very close to retail, when he was expecting a debug menu and all sorts of differences, which I never claimed. I merely stated they were betas, and what I wanted for them. As far as claiming anything else beyond that, it did not happen.

If the items I sell say "review" or "preview" I make sure to include that in my sales, but if not, it's basically potluck because I can't check for differences. Sometimes you find agem, sometimes not.

 

You didn't tell me that thay could be identical to final releases. When I asked for photo or scans of the CD's, you said, that you had no time to do it. I know that you are an experienced seller, but I didn't think I would get final builds from you.

I realize that bad block can be copy protection. The fact is not in this. I got final builds!

The dispute opened only because you didn't agree to take the CD's back. Why to begin all these disputes, to open the topic, accuse me? We could seperate friendly.

Besides, my friend wrote that the fact of selling of unofficial copies was the reason of the dispute. I know very well that in the USA it is very strictly with it. I want to get my money back for the games, which you sold me as beta versions.

Let's stop our quarrels, as we have different notions of what beta versions are. Please, give me back my money and I'll give you back your CD's.

I'm not going to make copies of the CD's as they won't differ from final releases.

 

I have bought GDR's from reputable original recipients of the items and they have been unrecognisable from the retail copies. This doesn't mean they aren't authentic, they are just "beta" from the far end of production.

I would trust DreamTR's products, but at the end of the day, if the seller doesn't categorically state what is or isn't in a product then it's your own fault for buying something and assuming the status of the item.

 

I think you are stuck here, you dont magically get your money back because its not what you -thought- it was. It is what it is

 

Because a photo of the CD or scan of the CD is not going to tell you if it is Preview or Review. I told you I don't have a scanner. I told you what text was on the betas, nothing said preview or review.

And here's another issue. Your friend who did the PayPal claim stated I was selling CDRs of unofficial games, whereas he thought he was getting retail copies. WTF? That's entirely false, but you just admitted you did that in order to file a claim!

I offered you an Alpha version of a Crash Bandicoot game for PS2 for free. You never even responded to it. You thought you were getting games with debug menus, and you are disappointed that they did not have it. This is basically buyer remorse, and you do not deserve a refund on this.

I told you I can work on getting you other games or whatever, and I thin kI am being overly generous with this, but no one's ever going to sell to you if you pull things like this. A new member in Russia filing PayPal claims because he did not read, then files FALSE PayPal claims in regards to the details of the actual merchandise on top of it? Wow.

 

From your PM:

At the end of a CD were non-reading blocks, which could not recognize 5 programms. I wanted to list the games and started with ePSXe. It lasted about 20 per cent but I found no difference from final versions. Then I decided to make the image data once again or to copy all files. Of course, I could not do anything, because my PC does not read any files.

Also, you say you only checked 20% of the disc against retail? And then you say that you cant read files on your PC, so how on earth did you know its 1:1 with retail?

 

Also, here is the PayPal claim filed:

PayPal Claim: From Buyer: Raymond Eremenko on 5/25/2008 11:21 PDT
Not official copies of games - free previews on CD-R.
I want to return money and send you back your stuff.

 

To Dot50Cal:

It's beta version.



It's original retail version.



Japanese versions.