What's common knowledge about WWII in Japan?

Right -- while the Nazi flag was never the official flag of Germany (or was it?). I think the point is the flag is not representative of the entire populace, but definitely of a group within with questionable motives.

 

The Nazi flag was the official flag.

 

Reminds me of the prussian war-flag here in germany...

 

If the winning nations wouldn't have been such cunts to Germany after WW1, a guy like Hitler would've never got to power.

 

Didn't someone in here just state that it was the flag of the Nazi party, not the nation? I admit, this is all neither here nor there, really. It's like talking about white people using the N-word. It's all about context... not the text book definition.

 

It started as their party flag but when the Nazis came to power it became one of two official flags of Germany with the other being a black, white, and red tricolor. Eventually it became the sole official flag of Germany once they consolidated power.

 

Word

 

This. Also about the Indians and things we had done to them, also about slavery and other stuff like Civil rights and the terrible things African Americans were subjected to by our own people.


I'm sure there is other stuff too

 

I had a flashback today. My extent of 2nd hand knowledge of German flags comes with an old colleague from East Germany. He joined the cumpany as we moved to Hawaii. He was blown away by how many homes had American flags on them. He said, "If I tried this in Germany people would look at me and say, 'are you a fucking Nazi or something?'"

 

Yes, probably for most Americans. But on this forum, the Americans you're going to find will be of higher education and intelligence than average.

It probably varies from state to state. My public education taught us about lots of bad stuff in American history -- slavery, Jim Crow laws, the Trail of Tears, Japanese internment camps, CIA backing of Pinochet, McCarthy's Communist witch hunt...

 

The same happens in Spain. Somone carrying a spanish flag is seen as a fascist by most, someone carrying an autonomous region flag is seen as a separatist by most. People in many countries hasn't got the same patriotist feeling as americans in the US have.

 

Just for future reference concerning the flags.

After Hitler became chancellor, he made 2 flags the official flags of Germany: The wellknown swastika one, and the one of the German Empire. It was the flag of the "old, proud" Germany (1866-1918, until the start of the Weimar Republic), so the Nazis chose it firstly to accomodate old chancellor Hindenburg and secondly to represent "old German prewar-pride". Here's a picture, we all know what the other swastika one looks like:


In 1935, with Hindenburg's death and the party's even moreso increased power following the enactment of the Nuremberg Laws, the Nuremberg party rallye and Triumpf of the Will, the swastika flag was now declared the one and only official flag for Germany until 1945.

That was "fun with flags", thanks everyone.

Oh, I feel with this guy. When I first came to the US, I was amazed by how many flags you can see on houses, cars, reaching out of their butts and nostrils. Due to Germany's troubled past, we do not have a very patriotic identity anymore and especially the proud display of national symbolism such as flags is treated with utmost care (remember that the Nazis produced more swastika merchandise than there are fucking Mickey Mouse products).

The German 2006 world cup was very much one of the first occasions since WW2 (!) when the mainstream masses would go out on the streets, waving German flags and being proud of their country... and guess what, comparisons with Nazi Germany came up right on the next day, lol.

Very sensitive issue, all that waving flags.

 

This is an interesting point! I was in Munich last year for Oktoberfest, and I was talking to a lot of Germans (in vino veritas!). I was telling them they should be proud to be Germans, because Germany is one of the strongest countries in the Eurozone. They were saying that they really can't talk about that and how they really need to bend to the will of the rest of the Eurozone, mostly because of the what happened in WWII. These were kids in their 20s talking like this! At what point does Europe say "OK, the people who did that have been punished, yes you live on the same land, but you are a different society and no longer have to pay for the sins of your (grand)fathers?"

 

It's pretty obvious that WWII is still a sour spot across the world., for all of the Axis. Well, for Germany and Japan, anyway. The rest of the region hates Japan. Japanese generally only wave their flags in international sporting events (World Cup, Olympics) and there's generally no bad stigma that follows. However, they do shit like erase things like Nan King (and others) out of history books in the high school cirriculum b/c they're "too violent". Draconian... reinvented.

 

European here from a country that was occupied by Germany: I feel like all the WWII stuff is way behind us and honestly don't know a single person who still takes it seriously. So no, I don't feel like Germany is still being blamed for WWII in most if not all (Western) European countries.

The Chinese and Japan on the other hand.. Now there's a case of "seriously, let it go already" if I've ever experienced one. Was shocked how much shit people were talking when I lived in China, and this was before all that Senkaku islands bullshit as well.

 

China's way of treating the past is selective to say the least. They are always being reminded of what exactly the Japanese did to them (and that's good and important, of course), but nobody teaches in school what type of leader Mao exactly was and the estimated 45 million people he ordered to be killed directly or indirectly are not mentioned anymore (what the fuck, China?).

In Germany, everyone is very aware of the blame that lasts on us as a country, but I honestly think that out of all countries in the world who committed genocides, Germany is by far the most conscious and honest country there is. It wasn't always perfect how we handled the persecution of war criminals in the aftermath (e.g. some Nazi officials were never put on trial), but compared to countries who committed genocides such as Russia (Gulags), China (Cultural Revolution) or Japan (Nanking), Germany is definitely the winner.

Look at Russia, they open a museum to honor Stalin, the man who killed more people than Hitler. In China, the face of the man who killed 45 million innocent people is printed on their money! Turkey still does not assume responsibility for the genocide on the Armenians, in which over 1 million men, women and children were killed through brutal death marches.

I am by no means trying to relativate what Germany did by saying everyone else did equally bad things. Just what bothers me sometimes is that Germany has to feel infinitely humble about their country whereas genocidal maniacs like Mao are proud national symbols in other countries and nobody says a word. I would love to get a little bit more consciousness from countries like China, but I guess that is wishful thinking.

 

USSR won the war by numbers of killed Germans. The Soviets killed more Germans than anyone else. Germany did lose the war, dear Polandball, no matter how much more moniez they have than you do. It's also still semi-owned by the allied powers who, unlike USSR, never left Germany.

 

I was asking a question, that didn't really need an answer. So you can just quietly roll under your mud carpet, Kazakhball. And for future reference, please stop with the /b/ talk, it's annoying as hell.

 

That's BS, really. There was less than a million executed, and most of them were outright criminals, had nothing to do with politics. So that leaves a few hundred thousands innocent deaths. Well it's still sad and Stalin wasn't really a nice and fluffy. But comparing him to Hitler, who was hellbent on extermination of a few nations and also started a war that took close to hundred million lives? Stalin even ordered to not to use multiple rocket lauchers, especially cluster munitions in Europe, which, not doubt, led to more soviet soldier, but less civilian casualties.
Funny fact - number of people in prisons in camps in whole Stalin period is roughly equivalent to number of people in Russian and U.S. prisons in 4 years.
Does it mean that current governments are more strict than 40s dictators? Not really, it only means that they are too busy licking corporate butts to do something with rising crime rates.

Anyway, archives are the best source for historical facts, not TV/radio, whatever.

 

I haven't read the thread entirely yet but I'd like to just mention a manga I read recently. Only the first 3 volumes though.

Barefoot Gen by Keiji Nakazawa. Supposedly the mangaka was at ground zero during the initial atomic blast in Hiroshima.

Interestingly it was this article that led me to pick it up after seeing the movie in an HMV store some years ago. Link!

Now, the contents of this manga I found hugely disturbing. It's like a piece of post apocalyptic fiction but more powerful. Obviously I'll never know the horror of the situation but as a Westerner that has been fascinated with WWII since being a child I found it a really interesting read. It also goes into the attitudes of the Japanese to the war which is a topic that I had some understanding of but much more broadly.

Anyway, my point is that there has to be awareness of the topic in Japan. Perhaps this single manga isn't massively popular but I think there are a few more works on the subject too though I can't name any off the top of my head.

Would definitely recommend a read of it if this subject interests you. Amazing that Japan didn't surrender after the initial nuke too, incredibly stubborn!