does the SCPH-990x PS1 exists ?

Got it. looks like he added the 9903 in there. very cool.

They only collect BIOS dump on the actual PS1 hardware correct ?

 

The redump dat originally came from MESS (all the names and descriptions match). If you have any BIOS then letting me know is the best way of getting it documented. Just providing CRC/SHA etc isn't enough to prove it's real. For example I was recently given a 4.1E bios dump that was supposedly undumped, but it was just corrupt.

 

Oh, OK.

Yeah, that's why I suggested to check those posted hashes to have a confirmation from at least two people.

Does is mean that you need to have a trusted person to dump the BIOS or that you need the same info from various people?

 

I dumped about a quarter of the BIOS in that list myself, importing a 10$ console off ebay to get dumps is one way to prove it.
But that isn't necessary, you need to be willing to provide a dump of the rom for a start.

What other BIOS are there to collect?

 

I was curious and put the ROMID disc into a bunch of PS2 TEST, and PS3 TESTs + TOOLs and the result are all "undumped" . That's why I asked.

 

The PS3 is a software emulator, my guess is that it's hacked to remove the boot up screen & possibly also to take out stuff hardware needs that the software emulator doesn't.

I'm sure I looked at PS2 retail at some point, but I can't remember if I dumped it what I did with it (I wrote software that zip's the rom and then splits it over multiple memory cards so it's possible to dump anything you can do a swap trick on). Again the boot screen will have gone and there could be changes to cope with hardware differences.

While having a dump is interesting & collecting them separately is worthwhile, I'm not sure how useful they are for this.

 

What kind of compression do you achieve with your dumper? I mean how many parts do you get?
In my dumper I send uncompressed data which takes 5 parts (cards).

However in the last iteration I also added serial cable support. Cheap USB-TTL adapter does the job perfectly. Works fine on PSones too.

PS1 BIOS which is used by the PSP POPS emulator is "System ROM Version 4.5 05/25/00 J". I tested it on emulators and it works just fine.
But its missing a Memory Card manager and a CD player and it goes to boot screen regardless of inserted disc.
It's real easy to extract too from the decrypted pops.prx or from running dumper on the PSP itself.

I'm assuming PS3 uses similar/same BIOS.

As for PS2 it's PS1 BIOS is a compatibility layer and it won't work on the original hardware.
There are many PS2 experts on these forums which I'm sure can explain this in greater detail.

 

The compressed file is about half the size. I'll dig out the code, it's mostly zlib but the container was custom. I grabbed the winzip icon to use for showing in the memory card manager. I think I used custom splitting rather than using a spanned zip file.

I didn't bother with serial because soldering in a psone isn't fun & it's mainly psone that I was using it for as if the console has a parallel port then I'd use caetla.

I've been meaning to hookup a teensy to a memory card connector so any console can be hooked up to a PC.

That is interesting, while games have to go through the official library they pretty much all end up hitting hardware directly. So I'd expect the hardware to be pretty compatible. The only difference is that the console is already on by the time it gets to PS1 mode, so it's not having to initialise all the hardware.

 

Not sure if this is useful but since I have them hooked up ready so I checked them out with the ROMID disc.

all the PS3 TESTs report the same result so I only include one pic (DECHA00A, DECHJ00A, DECH-2000A, DECH-2500A)
It has SCEI bootstring when booting the ROMID disc


DTL-H30101. No bootstring


DTL-H75000A no bootstring

 

The PS1 part of the PS2 ROM is the same as PS1 really, but the shell has the first (white) boot screen and CD player removed. You can actually boot the PS2's PS1 shell on a PS1 and it'll have the same behavior.


The PS2 actually has more or less a real hardware PS1 mechacon in it, so you will get identical results between a PS2 debugging station and a PS1 debugging station. This includes returning spaces in response to command 1A.


The PS3's PS1 is an emulator. The PS1 ROM in a PS3 appears to have been lifted off a PS2, possibly whatever the last PS2 model was. In fact, if I remember right, it's as big as the PS2 BIOS it was lifted from, even though only 512k is loaded for the PS1 emulator. This is where the PS3 PS1 emulator gets the skipping straight to the second boot screen and all that. The PS3's PS1 emulator's handling of the 1A command appears to be to return whatever matches the console's region, or SCEI for debug systems. I believe that the PS3 always has an American PS2 BIOS in it, because otherwise running non-Japanese disks would hang on the black boot screen. This I believe to also be why the SCPH-7000W has an American BIOS despite being a Japanese console. The American BIOS is the most flexible.


Unlike on PS1 and PS2, copy protection is not enforced in hardware on PS3. The Blu-ray drive merely reports what disk protection is detected to the OS, and it's up to the OS to decide what to do with it. The Blu-ray drive does not lock out read commands for unauthorized disks, which is why Multiman can run the PS1 emulator with CD-Rs and imports on retail systems.

Back on PS1, note that commands 1A and 19 03 6x D0 01 have different behavior. What does the 9903 respond with for command 1A? On a debug system, 1A will report the last four bytes as four spaces, whereas a retail system will report the SCEx string. Commands 19 03 6x D0 01 differ in that even on debug systems, you will get the SCEx result for the inserted disk, even though the CD controller ultimately ignores this string. It'd be interesting to know what the 19 03 6x D0 01 and 1A results are for Japanese legitimate disks.

All in all, the current evidence suggests that the 9903 you have is more or less a SCPH-7501 motherboard with a "stealth" modchip of some sort installed.

 

Maybe we should make a new PSX ROMID disk that does all the interesting commands in one pass and displays them to the user on one screen. The existing functionality could be accessed with a button from this screen.

The new mode would show CRC32/MD5/SHA-1 of the ROM, ROM version string, CD controller version information (manufacturing date, part numbers, "for U/C"), and would have simple one-button access to show the 1A and 19 03 6x D0 01 responses for the inserted disk.

You could also have "easy mode" / "summary mode" calculate a checksum of what it was displaying - only reverse engineers would be able to fake it, and the reverse engineers capable of this are all on this thread wanting the truth =)

 

Are you sure this is true, I mean have you tried to do it? This contradicts my tests and the information I found on the internet.
It also has a "PS compatible mode by M.T" string which to me suggests it's not just a gutted regular BIOS.

On the other hand that's exactly the situation with the PSP POPS BIOS.

Old fat units have PS2 hardware for backwards compatibility. That's why there is a PS2 rom and the reason Tichua got the "PS compatible mode by M.T" string as seen by his tests.
Newer units use a software emulator and I assume PS1 BIOS should be the same one used in the PSP POPS emulator though this needs confirmation. Can anyone with a slim PS3 run PSX ROMID on it?

 

@Shendo: My result posted above (the 1st pic) including running ROMID in the SLIM PS3 TEST (DECH-2000A and the DECH-2500A). All the PS3 TESTs give the same result. This include all the PS3 TESTs has been released (DECHA00A, DECHJ00A, DECH-2000A, DECH-2500A). The DECH-4000AA has been planned but has not been released so I can't test it.

The second pic is ROMID running on DTL-30101, a FAT PS2 TEST which is equivalent to the SCPH-3000x retail.

The last pic is ROMID running on the DTL-75000A, a SLIM PS2 TEST which is equivalent to the SCPH-7500x retail. The H75000 is the latest PS2 SLIM

If you want, I can run ROMID on all the PS2 TESTs has been released, including the DTL-H10000 (SCPH-10000 equivalent), DTL-H30000, and the DTL-H50000

 

DECH-4000AA was released months ago. They've been in circulation for all of 2013 and were being manufactured in 2012, just like the retail counterparts.

Plenty of them were used at E3 2013.

 

Thanks for the head up hl718. I will double check this. Whenever I asked if we gonna get the DECH-4000AA, I only get the response "not yet. they haven't released yet."

 

I don't have a way to run the BIOS itself on a PS1, but I have run the shell. It shows the black boot screen and runs the game.

I have no direct knowledge, and may be totally wrong, but my understanding was that even the "backward-compatible" PS3s only ever had the Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer chips from PS2, and that the entire IOP side of the PS2 was emulated in software by the PS3's PowerPC and SPU cores. The ROM file is thus used for all variants, and the PS2 mechacon is emulated by an SPU or the PowerPC interfacing with either the hard drive or the Blu-ray drive.

I'm somewhat curious how the PS2 responds to the PS1 test CD commands (19*). I can try PSX ROM ID on my DTL-H50001, but I don't have a good way to test on my SCPH-39001, since it's not modded. Ironic that you can't use the PS1 Independence exploit to run PS1 homebrew.

 

I'm not sure I follow you, where did you run the shell? On the emulator? Have you modified anything to make it run or have just copied over first 512KB of the PS2 boot ROM?

Me neither, that's why I only wrote my assumptions and not facts.
Wikipedia page says there are models with hardware based and partially software based PS2 backwards compatibility but that seems to be related to removal of EE, IOP is not mentioned.

Edit: Did a bit of research and you are right, IOP is emulated even on "hardware based PS2 BC" models.
Could it be that PS1 emulator on PS3 is actually emulated PS2 in PS1 mode? If that's the case it would explain why it has a full PS2 boot ROM even on slims.
Apparently PS2 emulator exists in newer consoles too but it's locked out due to poor GS emulation, source.

You can use PSXLauncher from uLaunchELF but you need a licensed game to perform a swap method with. And you need to make a slide tool for the door, but it's doable.

 

CECH-2101A (U.S. slim retail PS3) with hacked CEX firmware 4.41 using MultiMan to boot ROMID. Looks identical to debug PS3 screenshot from earlier.

 

I think that the 9903 is just a 7501 with a power supply that can handle a 240V mains and that this system in particular has a stealth mod chip of some kind installed. My 7501's label only says 120V 60 Hz.

Evidence:
- Vent grilles on bottom and parallel port are consistent with 7501.
- Manufacturing date on label of May 1999 is consistent with 7501 (my 7501 is also May 1999).
- Label has a lot in common with 7501's, except that 240V is also supported and serial number starts with U instead of S.
- Test commands identify chips as "for U/C" and a PU-22 board, just like a 7501.
- Test commands 19 6x D0 01 always show "SCEA" regardless of the type of inserted disk. This is what modded systems do; unmodded systems, both retail and debug, show the disk's real string instead for these commands.
- Mod-detecting games don't find a chip; stealth chip therefore suspected.
- Boots CD-Rs, eliminating a Yaroze or 7000W board from being confused with this one.

 

Well, I found the generation of PS2 that the PS3's PS2 came from. This is a DTL-H50001. Since its CRC32 doesn't match despite the date match, my guess is that the PS3's PS2 ROM actually comes from an SCPH-50001 instead, the U.S. retail model.

Beats me why an American debug system calls itself "for Japan" rather than "for U/C" or "for US/AEP".