rant: i hate all new games

''

 

Will check...but likely won't get around to buying/playing.

Ouch... uh... Every played arcade games? The benchmark of skill is the score. This was somehow replaced w/ the collect-o-thon crap we have now.

 

There's one around, drunk people forget though.

 

Speaking for new games I personally hate the fact that most new 2D shooters are mediocre bullet hell shooters that are so overhyped by most 2D shooter fans. Note that I am a hardcore 2D shooters fan too but the only bullet hell shooters I really enjoyed are Touhou, Shikigami no Shiro, eXceed (which is great combination of Touhou and Ikaruga) and Guwange. Maybe it's a matter of taste, so I won't bitch about it more than that like a faggot.

Speaking for Touhou, I want to try playing Touhou on easy mode while I'm drunk. The problem is I have never been drunk in my like and I only drink beer from alcohool but my stomach can't stand more than two bottles of beers and you can't get drunk with so much beer. Hey, why are you looking me like that? XD

That would kick ass! :Rock: Nintendo, what are you waiting for?

 

1: Bullet Hell is a gay word... the only one lamer than it is "shmup". So, let s be trend-setters and break that fad.
2: Which ones are "over hyped by 2D shooter fans"? Weird that you're a 2D bullet hell fan and the only one you named that's 2D is Guwange. Most fans of the genre still argue about what the best amongst the only company still putting games out that match that description.

 

Most new 2D shooters = CAVE shooters = not overhyped. They offer high overall design quality and every game has an entirely different score system. It's not overhyped, shooters just evolved (a little) since 1992. It would be sad if they were still the same like in the Toaplan days just with better graphics.
No one can say that 20 years of stagnation is the way to go for genre. Without evolution in art and diversity there would've never been a Godard, a Gaspar Noe, a Hitchcock or a Fritz Lang. They all did something like it's never been done before and CAVE managed to do it with the shooting genre (in a less philosophic way ).

 

And what's the manly word to call them, Mr Chuck Norris?

Lots of them like the most shooters Cave makes.

I was talking about bullet hell shooters and not shooters generally. Most bullet hell shooters looks alike on gameplay. The only thing that looks different is the setting and artstyle. And I don't give a damn about different score system. That's why I prefer not-bullet hell shooters like Gradius, R-Type, Darius, Thunder Force, Parodius, Ikaruga and many others. I don't care if they are old or new as long as they're entertaining.

 

I guess you need to start appreciating danmaku on a different level, such as one of artistic style and game mechanics.

I love pretty much all of the non-bullet hell shooters you mentioned there, particularly the Parodius series and also the likes of Detana!! TwinBee, but these are what I would call retro shoot 'em ups. I also love danmaku games, but in a very different way.

The thing is, there is virtually no market for 1992-style shooters now. However, there is a niche market in danmaku and it's only really Cave who cater for this. They have simply moved with the times when most other shooter developers stopped releasing shooters and either moved over to other genres just vanished entirely.

 

Bullet Heck

Well, the games hardly sell in high numbers... even in Japan, so I still fail to see the over hype.

B/c other shooters are so much more unique.

All of the games you listed are based on score. They are just not as clear-cut (except for Ikaruga which is more brutal than most Cave games).

 

Bullet hell (I'm using that term, get over it ) shooters aren't really my favorite type, but I do like the ones made by Cave. Dodonpachi is still practically the perfect example of how to blend "bullet hell" elements with traditional shooters. Touhou on the other hand is pretty lame, at least the ones I've played: nothing but boss fights against little anime girls where the bullets always move in the same patterns. Yawn.

 

In general though, Cave shooters are (for the most part) very similar. There are, of course, some differences here and there, but really, once you play DDP you pretty much know what to expect from most of those guys' catalogue.

I think the argument from people strongly against Cave (i.e. those that consider them overhyped) is that there are too many manics and that they would to have the occassional graphically improved return to the Toaplan or Tecno Soft (well, for me that would be classic Tecno Soft, none of that post-Blast Wind bullshit) or Raizing school of shooters.

Of course, those types of games still come out, just not as much as the "I'm going to fill the screen with pink and blue orbs and you're going to do something wacky for score" style games.

 

In all fairness (and trust me, I'm just as critical of Cave as a hater) I think they've done a great job of coming up with unique scoring systems, and only borrowing certain parts of scoring mechanisms for new games. Then you've got multiple modes in the Mushihime-sama games (Original mode of the first being basically a Psikyo game but with good graphics), ESPGaluda being easy, and Death Smiles only being a Danmaku if the user wants to jack up the rank as he goes along.

Each is a spiritual successor of the last, and if concentrating on dodging isn't your thing, then yeah, you're not going to like them. But let's face it, Cave is the last company putting out quality 2D games. Even people that don't quite "get" the system are going to rave about them so long as they like the graphical style, as it is quite unique.

 

Sorry to jack the thread, but I reckon someone here will know instantly and save me a bunch of research: which of the Cave games will play on a PAL/UK 360?

 

Mushihime-sama Futari
ESPGaluda II Black Label: Regular Edition (LE will not).

 

Cheers mate.

 

Well, personally, I'm not such a Cave hater anymore, but I do understand the mentality behind the people who do dislike them. Cave do what they do very well. But what they do still resides within the confines of a very specific niche, one which many do not care for.

And on that note, damn my being broke and still not picking up Ketsui on 360. :crying: The whole reason I got a Japanese console to begin with. :banghead:

 

People who don't like Cave or danmaku in general often say they like oldschool shooters instead.

To be honest, I don't see how one can choose only the one or the other. Gradius becomes a horizontal danmaku game if you play it for a couple of loops. According to interviews with Cave designers, these first impressions of bullet hell, like in a later loop of Salamander or Gradius II, inspired them to create games like dodonpachi - because dodging bullets on its own is enough fun to keep playing the game over and over again.

I always tell these people who seem to prefer impressive backgrounds and simple gameplay over lots of bullets to dodge (=difficulty involved) that they should go and play Euroshmups
Isn't it narrow-minded to say too much = bad and repetitive? Space Harrier is a really fun game, but it has 18 stages of which about 16 look all the same but for the color theme... I like it nonetheless and it's an appreciated classic.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say that "lots of bullets to dodge = difficulty". In fact, its really a matter of figuring out how to approach the games. For danmaku, I've always found it to be a matter of focus and knowing your hitbox. For "old school shooters", it varies. R-Type and the "euroshmups" are pure memorization. Konami's games are memorization, reflex, and a little rank control. Raizing games are mostly rank management with a fair amount of reflex. Toaplan games are almost pure reflex.

Its just different strokes for different folks. Personally, I primarily love pre-TFV Tecno Soft due to their epic music, enemies, and levels. But thats just me.
*Note: In fact, my favorite 2D shooter of all time is Blast Wind. And as far as I know I still have the highest recorded score in it.*

 

I thought I used to like shmups, but I've grown kind of tired of them. I actually bought ESPgaluda for PS2 for like $90, but I ended up only playing it for a few days. The thing about shooters is that they entice you with pretty graphics and cool weapons, but then you realize that to really get anything out of the gameplay you need to put a lot of effort into it. You need to practice a lot and study where the bullets are flying, etc. Personally I don't like games that require a lot of learning and practice for you to enjoy the gameplay. It seems to me that life is so full of that kind of crap that when I play a videogame, I just want to relax and enjoy myself. I want instant gratification. But then that's just me, and I know that doesn't apply to everyone.

 

This is hardly any different than any developer that specializes in a specific genre. How many Psikyo games are unique... Square RPGs, etc., etc. If you don't like one of that company's games, there stands a great chance that you won't like any of them.